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Regarding the Georgia and Alabama OC situations:
Posted on 2/3/23 at 2:51 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 2:51 am
The funny thing to me is both fanbases toss out names as OC replacements they want that Saban nor Smart would hire in a hundred years. Guys that exclusively run systems like the Air Raid or Heupel's veer and shoot are not gonna be hires for these coaches. Nor are coaches who run any type of hurry up exclusively.
When you go and search the top OCs in college football, those names dominate the lists, so you can pretty much take 80% of those lists and throw them in the trash.
I have heard that Monken has told several people he's not taking the Tampa job and does not want to go somewhere that has a queston mark at QB not just in terms of if it's settled, but also if the QB is good.
If Baltimore gets the LJ thing straightened out and they want him, that still might be an option.
As far as Bama, I'm just not sure O'brien and Golding were as bad as they are made out to be and that they are the main problem there.
The Washington guy was already making a ton of money and had a stable QB situation. He also has been following his HC around for years. Whatever the positives of being Bama's OC, it probably wasn't better than his current situation.
Bama will probably outbid ND on Rees. My understanding is the President of ND is stingy with the purse strings which is one of the reasons Kelly left. Notre Dame could outspend everyone if they wanted, but he pretends people hear Notre Dame and think first and foremost academics and doesn't want the football team to overtake that (not realizing the football team overtook that a long time ago).
Later edit: I guess ND is now willing to pay him whatever Bama does. Will be interesting to see if it's just about money.
When you go and search the top OCs in college football, those names dominate the lists, so you can pretty much take 80% of those lists and throw them in the trash.
I have heard that Monken has told several people he's not taking the Tampa job and does not want to go somewhere that has a queston mark at QB not just in terms of if it's settled, but also if the QB is good.
If Baltimore gets the LJ thing straightened out and they want him, that still might be an option.
As far as Bama, I'm just not sure O'brien and Golding were as bad as they are made out to be and that they are the main problem there.
The Washington guy was already making a ton of money and had a stable QB situation. He also has been following his HC around for years. Whatever the positives of being Bama's OC, it probably wasn't better than his current situation.
Bama will probably outbid ND on Rees. My understanding is the President of ND is stingy with the purse strings which is one of the reasons Kelly left. Notre Dame could outspend everyone if they wanted, but he pretends people hear Notre Dame and think first and foremost academics and doesn't want the football team to overtake that (not realizing the football team overtook that a long time ago).
Later edit: I guess ND is now willing to pay him whatever Bama does. Will be interesting to see if it's just about money.
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 6:45 am
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Posted on 2/3/23 at 3:57 am to koreandawg
Any OC will bring elements of their past and not overhaul the offense at either program.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 5:22 am to WW
Disaster waiting to happen if you are asking a guy like Heupel or Leach to fundamentally change what they do.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:02 am to koreandawg
It's proven that Leach is incapable of change
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:03 am to koreandawg
You post an awful lot about Alabama.
And most of it is awful take after awful take.
quote:
As far as Bama, I'm just not sure O'brien and Golding were as bad as they are made out to be and that they are the main problem there.
And most of it is awful take after awful take.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:35 am to MoarKilometers
quote:
And most of it is awful take after awful take.
I agree. I thought you were the best team coming into 2022.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:44 am to Silverback
quote:"like"
It's proven that Leach is incapable of change
When Heupel's system is to stay on script so he can run fast, I'm not sure how you work a Saban style offense that complements his defense into that.
Again, what does the track record tell you? Neither Saban, nor Kirby, are going after guys who run an offense that is essentially a one trick pony that's simply hard to stop due to scheme. What Tennessee does is "We're gonna do this thing, and you can't execute well enough to stop it because you'll have too few in the box and you can't run with our WRs." Then they meet up with a team that can, and they have no answer.
Look at the difference in what you did versus Cincy and what you did versus UGA last year. Look at UGA vs. Arkansas and vs. Michigan last year. Beat the crap out of both, but different ways.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 7:35 am to koreandawg
Oh snap
Posted on 2/3/23 at 7:50 am to koreandawg
quote:
Disaster waiting to happen if you are asking a guy like Heupel or Leach to fundamentally change what they do.
I think there's a core difference between Heupel and Leach.
We assume Heupel is like Leach and is wed to a specific system. But he really hasn't been coaching that long (unlike Leach had). It could be that the system he runs has fit his talent at the schools he's been at so far.
Remember Mark Richt was a no fullback, no TE OC for years at FSU. But when he came to UGA (who had FB and TE talent) he completely changed and went full pro-style and stuck with it for years. It's not like he didn't use guys like Verron Haynes and Randy McMichael.
Heupel likely is stuck on his system, but I don't think it's totally a given yet.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 8:52 am to DawginSC
quote:
I think there's a core difference between Heupel and Leach.
The reason I mentioned both names is because they are different. Heupel isn't running the air raid. He's running what some are calling a veer and shoot. He's added more run to the air raid and really needs a QB with run skills to run it at its ceiling.
The WRs out that wide? You don't see that in the NFL, except maybe a few plays here and there. From what I've read it really cuts down on the route tree and the WRs aren't really learning to run the complex routes you see in most NFL offenses. The Bama and UGA WRs and many others are running complex routes, reading the defense themselves. Also, Hooker isn't asked to do anything near what Bryce Young, Stroud and Bennett do in terms of reads pre and post snap.
Kingsbury tried the air raid in the NFL and it didn't work. He had to change his offense. He did, and it was better but he's looking for a job now. Not easy.
Of course, NFL OC's borrow some concepts and use these offenses in their playbook, but it's not exclusively these style of offenses. Monken, Kiffin, Sark, wouldn't have to make some kind of fundamental change where you'd say their offense is totally different in the NFL from what they ran in college.
But neither Smart, nor Saban have wanted exclusive HUNH. That's an element everyone has at this time to take advantage of the defense. But most of these air raid and V and S teams don't really do anything else well. They can't milk the clock when they're up.
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 8:55 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:39 am to koreandawg
quote:
The funny thing to me is both fanbases toss out names as OC replacements they want that Saban nor Smart would hire in a hundred years. Guys that exclusively run systems like the Air Raid
Ironic post is ironic
It’s like the poster is oblivious or something
I mean I get the whole it’s a UGA poster so lower your expectations but holy shite dude.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:46 am to koreandawg
quote:
Disaster waiting to happen if you are asking a guy like Heupel or Leach to fundamentally change what they do.
You should just log off for bit slick.
Heupels strength is his versatility. he adapts what he does to the skillset of his players. If he has a running QB and good deep RBs then his teams become running Os (2021 Vols) but when his RB situation isn’t as deep and he has the WRs the O becomes a Passing O (2022 Vols). Hooker was more of a runner and Milton was more of a pure passer and he fundamentally changed the O to fit Milton the last 2 games last year.
Stick to barking at strangers or whatever it is UGA fans do during basketball season.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:48 am to Smokeyone
Melt.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:49 am to Smokeyone
Not at all. Monken runs a pro spread at Georgia, which is what he was coaching/running in the NFL. He has some air raid in his background, but it wasn't his end all be all.
Look at the quotes: “Really what I took away from (the Air Raid) was being able to throw to win,’’ Monken said after taking the Browns job last season in a Cleveland.com story.
“That really to me was the Air Raid. You had a certain amount of run game, you ran a lot of the same concepts and you could throw to win."
He's talking past tense and what he took from it. That's what I said. They're using concepts from it, but his offense in the air raid.
Kirby would not have hired him straight out of Okie State running it exclusively. That's my point.
Lane was never total HUNH. He ran a lot of it at Bama, which is common place for most teams now. But again, I said a coach who runs almost exclusively HUNH. He hasn't been that for his whole OC career.
In the very article you just dropped Li'l Smoke....
"Kiffin didn't run the fast-pace game at USC and wasn't a fan of it when asked last summer."
Look at the quotes: “Really what I took away from (the Air Raid) was being able to throw to win,’’ Monken said after taking the Browns job last season in a Cleveland.com story.
“That really to me was the Air Raid. You had a certain amount of run game, you ran a lot of the same concepts and you could throw to win."
He's talking past tense and what he took from it. That's what I said. They're using concepts from it, but his offense in the air raid.
Kirby would not have hired him straight out of Okie State running it exclusively. That's my point.
Lane was never total HUNH. He ran a lot of it at Bama, which is common place for most teams now. But again, I said a coach who runs almost exclusively HUNH. He hasn't been that for his whole OC career.
In the very article you just dropped Li'l Smoke....
"Kiffin didn't run the fast-pace game at USC and wasn't a fan of it when asked last summer."
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 11:15 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:06 am to koreandawg
quote:
Not at all. Monken runs a pro spread at Georgia, which is what he was coaching/running in the NFL.
Did you read the link? It was a Dawg Nation story about Todd Monken the Air Raid expert and how he was going to modernize the UGA O. And Monken didn’t call plays or have a system in the NFL. He ran other folks systems and others called plays. (That was discussed throughly when he was hired) that’s why Kirby hired him. He would run a safe low risk system that Kirby was comfortable with. He is a game manager OC that kept Kirby’s D out of bad situations.
Both Monken and Kiffin are the type of OCs you claim neither Saban or Kirby would hire in a million years and they were both hired by Kirby and Saban recently.
A little success has made UGA fans stupid this basketball season.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:16 am to Smokeyone
quote:
Did you read the link? It was a Dawg Nation story about Todd Monken the Air Raid expert and how he was going to modernize the UGA O. And Monken didn’t call plays or have a system in the NFL. He ran other folks systems and others called plays. (That was discussed throughly when he was hired) that’s why Kirby hired him. He would run a safe low risk system that Kirby was comfortable with. He is a game manager OC that kept Kirby’s D out of bad situations.
Both Monken and Kiffin are the type of OCs you claim neither Saban or Kirby would hire in a million years and they were both hired by Kirby and Saban recently.
A little success has made UGA fans stupid this basketball season.
You don't read. Everyone is using concepts from those offenses, but it's not exclusively what they do.
In the very article Todd is talking about it in the past tense. "What I took from the air raid."
He's not running the air raid and was not in Tampa. Does he still use concepts from it? Yes.
Don't just do a search and drop articles based on the title. Read them. It'll do you some good.
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 11:20 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:27 am to koreandawg
quote:
I'm just not sure O'brien and Golding were as bad as they are made out to be
no disrespect intended, but I don't think you follow bama close enough if that is your thought. I will kinda agree with you on golding, he was alright but that fanbase is used to decades of smart/pruitt so obviously golding is a downgrade. He had some pitiful schedmes and calls at times but in general I think his shittiniess is a bit overblown.
BOB on the other hand, you are totally wrong. That guy is a buffoon and absolutely held them back. It may look more palatable because of a heisman winner at QB, multpkle transfers from across the country transferring in to immediately start, and just a general talent advantage over most opponents. But if you actually watch them play a full game you'll see that a shite ton of their points are because of bryce and gibbs just being better than most everyone else on defense. His playcalling was awful and is far more suited to the NFL where receivers are expected to make split second decisiosn in a millisecond based on coverage and also have the WR see the same thing so they're both on the same page. Simliar to grantham at UGA, it doesn't matter how big or complex or smart your playbook is if the 19 year olds executing it can't do it properly.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 1:37 pm to Smokeyone
quote:
He is a game manager OC.
If the OC can’t manage a game, he isn’t good.
There is no better example of monk managing a game than what he did vs UT:
Pass heavy explosion in the first half.
Run heavy clock killing in the 2nd half.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 2:18 pm to djsdawg
quote:
If the OC can’t manage a game, he isn’t good
Verbiage is lost on you. Most top programs look for game changers, not a guy that at the end of the day, the best that can be said is that “he didn’t put the defense in a bad position”. And that really is the best that can be said of Monken.
Saban figured out you need more than that to be sustainable. Kirby will learn it, the question is can he let go the micromanaging enough to act on it.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 2:24 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
no disrespect intended, but I don't think you follow bama close enough if that is your thought. I will kinda agree with you on golding, he was alright but that fanbase is used to decades of smart/pruitt so obviously golding is a downgrade. He had some pitiful schedmes and calls at times but in general I think his shittiniess is a bit overblown.
BOB on the other hand, you are totally wrong. That guy is a buffoon and absolutely held them back. It may look more palatable because of a heisman winner at QB, multpkle transfers from across the country transferring in to immediately start, and just a general talent advantage over most opponents. But if you actually watch them play a full game you'll see that a shite ton of their points are because of bryce and gibbs just being better than most everyone else on defense. His playcalling was awful and is far more suited to the NFL where receivers are expected to make split second decisiosn in a millisecond based on coverage and also have the WR see the same thing so they're both on the same page. Simliar to grantham at UGA, it doesn't matter how big or complex or smart your playbook is if the 19 year olds executing it can't do it properly.
spot on.
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