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re: Folks who know their football history.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:25 pm to Jaketigger
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:25 pm to Jaketigger
quote:
You don't know that Army was a POWERHOUSE program for college football BEFORE Bryan was at Kentucky, Bama, and Dietzel was at LSU.
Anyone that knows even the least amount of college football history realizes that both Army and Navy were powerhouses prior to the 1950s.
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Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:27 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
This is true. If we were going by the first definition, he would be a Hayes or James disciple.
But I think anyone who looks at Nick Saban and then at Bill Belichick knows that both men belong in the same coaching tree. Saban's demeanor, his coaching style, his defensive and offensive philosophies....all of them are products of the Bill Belichick school of coaching.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:29 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
offensive philosophies
I agree with everything you posted but this..... Belichik's offenses have been the exact opposite of Saban's of late..... shot-gun pass first mentality.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:29 pm to secfan123
quote:
Blaik than Bryant, even though he was with bryant longer.
Not true. So I am not sure where that came from...
Dietzel Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1948 - Army (assistant)
1949–1950 - Cincinnati (assistant)
1951–1952 -Kentucky (assistant)
1953–1954 - Army (assistant)
1955–1961 - LSU
1962–1965 - Army
1966–1974 - South Carolina
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:29 pm to RollTide1987
The point being, that with the way coaches have started to move around over the last two decades, they don't always belong to a certain tree like assistants once did. Influences come from a variety of coaches. However, you're right. The biggest influence on Coach Saban's coaching philosophy probably is Belichick. They're both Croatian after-all. 
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:31 pm to lowspark12
quote:
I agree with everything you posted but this..... Belichik's offenses have been the exact opposite of Saban's of late..... shot-gun pass first mentality.
They're both going to use what they have. Saban didn't have run first offenses at LSU, except for 2003. He was pretty pass happy the first couple of years there. He's been a lot more run heavy at Alabama, because of the talent he's had thus far. The same for Belichick in New England. When you have Tom Brady, it makes it easier.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:32 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
Anyone that knows even the least amount of college football history realizes that both Army and Navy were powerhouses prior to the 1950s
THANK YOU!
I'll throw in ND as well.
secfan123 was born when RR was president. that explains it all.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:37 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
The point being, that with the way coaches have started to move around over the last two decades, they don't always belong to a certain tree like assistants once did. Influences come from a variety of coaches.
very true, but look at what I posted earlier about Dietzel and also look at Coach Bryant. he moved a lot as well.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 6:44 pm to Jaketigger
quote:
very true, but look at what I posted earlier about Dietzel and also look at Coach Bryant. he moved a lot as well.
I don't know as much about Dietzel, but Bryant took a lot of his coaching philosophies from Frank Thomas at Alabama from 1936-40. He's other assistant stops were a season at Union in Jackson, Tennessee, prior to coming back to Alabama in '36 and Vanderbilt for two season in '41-'42. He was then in the Navy for the duration of World War II.
I read several times, that besides Thomas, the Navy influenced his coaching philosophies as much as anything. He finished his service in the Navy coaching the North Carolina Navy Pre-Flight football team, before taking his first college head coaching job at Maryland.
This is all to say, that while he made four stops as a head coach, much of his coaching philosophies came from his time under Thomas at Alabama, as a player and assistant.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 7:43 pm to Jaketigger
quote:
THANK YOU!
I'll throw in ND as well.
secfan123 was born when RR was president. that explains it all.
Yeah you're an idiot if you think I dont know about army, right down to the cheating scandal of the fifties. You're also an idiot if you dont realize that coaching under someone makes you part of their tree. You're a further idiot if you think Bryant hadn't accomplishd anything before 1958.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 7:46 pm to secfan123
An like I sid before, coaching trees dont always start t the first place you coach (ie Saban-belichick)
Posted on 4/18/11 at 8:33 pm to secfan123
quote:
cheating scandal of the fifties
You started a thread ASKING for help about coaching trees - particularly Coach Bryant's. You made a mistake about a former LSU LEGENDARY Coach, of which I am pretty familiar with his past. I pointed out the mistake about him and why, providing facts to support my point. You didn't like or even read the facts and tried to say that the coach I knew about coached under Bryant the longest. That was NOT true.
You didn't know who Red Blaik was - I got a book in front of me about GREAT College Football Coaches - He is one of the very first ones listed in the book.
It also mentions that Vince Lombardi and Dietzel among many others were from his coaching tree. He is the Trunk - All others are limbs.
Did Paul Dietzel learn anything from Coach Bryant? Sure he did. Did Coach Bryant learn some strategy from Coach Dietzel - sure he did. He was/is a smart man. And so was Coach Bryant. Coach Dietzel also learned the most fundamental things from Coach Blaik such as platooning players and discipline.
I don't understand you asking for help and being so rude when corrected about something.
PLEASE READ ON - SIMPLE FACTS YOU KNEW NOTHING ABOUT UNTIL AFTER YOU READ THIS POST AND THE 32 GAME WINNING STREAK!
You don't know that Army was a POWERHOUSE program for college football BEFORE Bryant was at Kentucky, Bama, and Dietzel was at LSU.
Vince Lombardi was from the same coaching tree as Dietzel - Blaik. The man nearly won (won 2) 3 consecutive NC from 44-46. Finished second in 46. He was a GREAT coach.
Dietzel had 3 stints at Army 2 with Blaik.
Just admit there were other coaches that were great in their own right besides Bryant. Many of which were schools outside of the SEC.
Read this on Dietzel then read about Blaik below on platoon systems
In 1958, however, Dietzel came up with a unique three-team platoon system. It consisted of three teams of 11 different players, and was designed to keep his players from being fatigued in an era when most players started on both offense and defense. Instead of replacing individual players during the game, Dietzel would bring in an entirely new set of players between plays and series. The three teams were called the White Team (the first-string offense and defense), the Gold (Go) Team (the second-string offense), and the Chinese Bandits (the second-string defense). The system worked, as the Tigers went undefeated and won the a national championship. The Chinese Bandits, the second-string defensive unit, which consisted of less-talented but ferocious players, became hugely popular with LSU fans and remains one of the most legendary pieces of LSU football history.
Blaik's Stats were Brilliant
At West Point, Blaik coached for 18 seasons compiling a 121–32–10 record. Blaik's Army teams had a 32-game unbeaten streak from 1944 to 1947, won consecutive national titles in 1944 and 1945, and finished second in the nation in 1946 with their record blemished only by a scoreless tie with rival Notre Dame at Yankee Stadium. In 1946, Blaik was selected as the AFCA Coach of the Year. In 1948, he became one of the first college coaches to implement a two-platoon system, using players strictly for offense or defense.[2] Blaik was also one of the first coaches to analyze the game play-by-play, charting a team’s tendencies on every down with the use of game film.[3]
Twenty of his former assistant coaches became head coaches in their own right: Paul Amen, George Blackburn, Clarence Boston, Eddie Crowder, Paul Dietzel, Bobby Dobbs, Sid Gillman, Jack Green, Andy Gustafson, Dale Hall, Tom Harp, Herman Hickman, Stu Holcomb, Frank Lauterbur, Vince Lombardi, John Sauer, Richard Voris, Murray Warmath, Bob Woodruff, and Bill Yeoman. Legendary fighter pilot Colonel Robin Olds also served as an assistant coach to Blaik. Dietzel, while at LSU, and Murray Warmath, while at Minnesota, won national championships as head coaches. Gillman, while head coach of the San Diego Chargers won an AFL championship. Lombardi, as head coach of the Green Bay Packers, won five NFL titles and the first two Super Bowls.
Posted on 4/18/11 at 8:58 pm to Jaketigger
First of all Jackass, I knew exactly who Red Blaik was. Me and MAgilla had several fine conversations long ago about Mr. Inside and Outside and their years at Army and how Harry Gilmer compared to them. Secondly, I didnt ask for help on Coach Brynts tree per se, I asked for help with names I left off the fricking list. Thirdly, as Dietzel was an assistant coach under Bryant, he goes on the list. Fourthly, JAcking off to Red Blaik had nothing to do with this thread and its purpose, which, had you the reading comprehension of a third grader, you would know I was looking for major college and profesional coaches who played for or coached for bear bryant. Here's the OP:
Played or coached for.
The fact that you assumed I didn't know who red blaik was even stupider as not only did i know exactly who he was, but not three hours before I included him on a list i made of 17 coaches who had won multiple poll titles.
Now, coaching trees are a funny thing. They are not all all by themselves like ones geneology. For Example John Mitchell is in the Coach Brynt tree because he played for nd coached for him. But guess what? He's also in the Lou Holtz tree because he coached for him at Arkansas. The reason you brought up Blaik, when I was talking bout Bryant, will forever be a mysetry, but the fact that you dont know think i know who blaik is is laughable.
The one thing you were correct on, yes, Dietzel went bck to Army before he went to LSU. Okay. That changes nothing, but thank you for the correction. Youre dumbest line of the whole rant:
Im very well aware of other teams successes, including that bryants own coach was a member of knutes coaching tree and that he almost started the game that gave birth to the four horsemen legend. Im also aware that Wallace Wade went on to take Duke to Rose Bowls after Alabama, tthat Frank LEahy won four titles in the 40's and that Minnesotta was a powerhouse up until the early 60's when murray warmath won their last title (becoming the last 2 loss team to hold a poll title until lsu did it- they lost their bowl game). I'm of the opinion that John McKay was better than Pete Carrol, that General Neyland was a feaarsome coach, and that as Good as Bud Wilkinson was, he played in a shite conference until Bob Devaney arrived at Nebraska.
HOWEVER, I didnt ask about these men or any others, I merely asked for help in tracking down the many layers and assistants coaches under Bryant who went on to become major college head coaches or professional coaches.
quote:
I was bored and doing a little project, trying to gauge the success of the bryant coaching tree. So far, I have come up with the following 11 names who played for or coached for bryant: Gene Stallings, Howard Schnellenberger, Paul Dietzel Danny Ford, Charlie Pell, Bill Bttle, Mike Riley, Ray Perkins, Charlie McClendon, Pat Dye, and Jackie Sherril. Can anyone help me with names ive left out (looking for only major college or professional head coaches). Thanks.
Played or coached for.
The fact that you assumed I didn't know who red blaik was even stupider as not only did i know exactly who he was, but not three hours before I included him on a list i made of 17 coaches who had won multiple poll titles.
Now, coaching trees are a funny thing. They are not all all by themselves like ones geneology. For Example John Mitchell is in the Coach Brynt tree because he played for nd coached for him. But guess what? He's also in the Lou Holtz tree because he coached for him at Arkansas. The reason you brought up Blaik, when I was talking bout Bryant, will forever be a mysetry, but the fact that you dont know think i know who blaik is is laughable.
The one thing you were correct on, yes, Dietzel went bck to Army before he went to LSU. Okay. That changes nothing, but thank you for the correction. Youre dumbest line of the whole rant:
quote:
Just admit there were other coaches that were great in their own right besides Bryant. Many of which were schools outside of the SEC.
Im very well aware of other teams successes, including that bryants own coach was a member of knutes coaching tree and that he almost started the game that gave birth to the four horsemen legend. Im also aware that Wallace Wade went on to take Duke to Rose Bowls after Alabama, tthat Frank LEahy won four titles in the 40's and that Minnesotta was a powerhouse up until the early 60's when murray warmath won their last title (becoming the last 2 loss team to hold a poll title until lsu did it- they lost their bowl game). I'm of the opinion that John McKay was better than Pete Carrol, that General Neyland was a feaarsome coach, and that as Good as Bud Wilkinson was, he played in a shite conference until Bob Devaney arrived at Nebraska.
HOWEVER, I didnt ask about these men or any others, I merely asked for help in tracking down the many layers and assistants coaches under Bryant who went on to become major college head coaches or professional coaches.
Posted on 4/19/11 at 7:20 pm to secfan123
quote:
Me and MAgilla had several fine conversations long ago about Mr. Inside and Outside and their years at Army and how Harry Gilmer compared to them. Secondly, I didnt ask for help on Coach Brynts tree per se, I asked for help with names I left off the fricking list. Thirdly, as Dietzel was an assistant coach under Bryant, he goes on the list. Fourthly, JAcking off
LINK?
quote:
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Red Blaik taught Paul Dietzel football. That is why he left LSU and went back to Army.
But yes, he was a Bryant assistant at one point.
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GUMP's Reply
Yes, Im sure he learned so much more from Blaik than Bryant, even though he was with bryant longer.
OKAY GUMP! Here is what I took exception too. You making an assumption that Red Blaik was not Coach Deitzel's biggest influence.
So
Loser. Little Bitch.
This post was edited on 4/19/11 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 4/19/11 at 8:08 pm to secfan123
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