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1977 Football Season Analysis (groundbreaking national champ implications)
Posted on 7/8/18 at 9:59 am
Posted on 7/8/18 at 9:59 am
The 1977 season was thrown into chaos at the very end. Entering bowl season Texas was #1 and on their way to being awarded the title. But they were embarrassed 38-10 by Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl.
At this point #2 Oklahoma as shoe-in for the title. All they needed to do was beat Arkansas in the Orange Bowl, but they would also be embarrassed with a 31-6 loss.
This would result in the national champ being decided via split decision. Arkansas and Notre Dame had 1 loss seasons and had both knocked out the would-be champ in their bowl game. Alabama had no signature win, but would be considered due to name recognition. These three teams all received #1 votes in the final AP poll.
Notre Dame received the most votes and was named champ. But is this justified? Let's take a look at objective facts for the 1977 season.
Records
Notre Dame: 11-1
Arkansas: 11-1
Alabama: 11-1
Worst Loss
Notre Dame: L Ole Miss (5-6) 13 - 21
Arkansas: L Texas (11-1) 9 - 13
Alabama: L Nebraska (9-3) 13 - 20
Best Win
Notre Dame: W Texas (11-1) 38 - 10
Arkansas: W Oklahoma (10-2) 31 - 6
Alabama: W Ohio St. (9-3) 35 - 6
Records are obviously a draw, but the rightful champ becomes more clear when looking at the best wins and losses.
Arkansas clearly had the "best" worst loss, having lost to the opponent with the best final record, as well as having the lowest margin of defeat.
Notre Dame's worst loss is so bad that a rational voter could easily argue that it disqualifies them from consideration, in comparison to the other two teams.
The best win does go to Notre Dame, however the margin above Arkansas' best win is razor thin.
Combining both categories, Arkansas clearly had the advantage. Yet, Notre Dame was recognized as champion. You'll have to decide for yourselves whether or not that was justified.
At this point #2 Oklahoma as shoe-in for the title. All they needed to do was beat Arkansas in the Orange Bowl, but they would also be embarrassed with a 31-6 loss.
This would result in the national champ being decided via split decision. Arkansas and Notre Dame had 1 loss seasons and had both knocked out the would-be champ in their bowl game. Alabama had no signature win, but would be considered due to name recognition. These three teams all received #1 votes in the final AP poll.
Notre Dame received the most votes and was named champ. But is this justified? Let's take a look at objective facts for the 1977 season.
Records
Notre Dame: 11-1
Arkansas: 11-1
Alabama: 11-1
Worst Loss
Notre Dame: L Ole Miss (5-6) 13 - 21
Arkansas: L Texas (11-1) 9 - 13
Alabama: L Nebraska (9-3) 13 - 20
Best Win
Notre Dame: W Texas (11-1) 38 - 10
Arkansas: W Oklahoma (10-2) 31 - 6
Alabama: W Ohio St. (9-3) 35 - 6
Records are obviously a draw, but the rightful champ becomes more clear when looking at the best wins and losses.
Arkansas clearly had the "best" worst loss, having lost to the opponent with the best final record, as well as having the lowest margin of defeat.
Notre Dame's worst loss is so bad that a rational voter could easily argue that it disqualifies them from consideration, in comparison to the other two teams.
The best win does go to Notre Dame, however the margin above Arkansas' best win is razor thin.
Combining both categories, Arkansas clearly had the advantage. Yet, Notre Dame was recognized as champion. You'll have to decide for yourselves whether or not that was justified.
This post was edited on 7/8/18 at 10:37 am
14
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:10 am to The Sultan of Swine
Notre Dame beat the team that beat Arkansas.
/thread
/thread
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:12 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Unforgivable loss to ole Miss...top 5 bogus championship along with 66..add 2 to bama
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:15 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Notre Dame beat the team that beat Arkansas.
/thread
Transitive property is the single most flawed methodology in sports. Your ignorance is showing.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:22 am to The Sultan of Swine
Considering what Arkansas did with suspended personnel was remarkable against NC hopeful Oklahoma.
Cotton Bowl between Texas and Notre Dame had some storylines. Earl Campbell vs. Joe Montana.
Pete Carroll was a graduate assistant for the 1977 Razorbacks. First of two times OU lost to Pete Carroll in the Orange Bowl.
IMO, Arkansas was the deserving 1977 Champ, or at least worthy of a share.
1977 is just an example of several other years where there was a more deserving champ such as 1983 Auburn, 1984 Washington, 1978 Oklahoma, 1966 Alabama to name a few...
Cotton Bowl between Texas and Notre Dame had some storylines. Earl Campbell vs. Joe Montana.
Pete Carroll was a graduate assistant for the 1977 Razorbacks. First of two times OU lost to Pete Carroll in the Orange Bowl.
IMO, Arkansas was the deserving 1977 Champ, or at least worthy of a share.
1977 is just an example of several other years where there was a more deserving champ such as 1983 Auburn, 1984 Washington, 1978 Oklahoma, 1966 Alabama to name a few...
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:30 am to The Sultan of Swine
quote:
Transitive property is the single most flawed methodology in sports.
Except that it's used all the time in determining SOS.
The fact of the matter is that even head-to-head results are flawed. Just because team A beats team B doesn't mean team A is the better team. The actual most flawed methodology is trying to claim championships retroactively through buffoonery such as your OP.
quote:
Your ignorance is showing.
I'm not the one trying to give Arkansas an undeserved championship.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:30 am to The Sultan of Swine
"Worst loss" is not a good criterion. Number of quality wins is much better.
According to the final AP ballot, Notre Dame had 4 quality wins:
#8 Pitt
#13 USC
#19 Clemson
#4 Texas
Arkansas had 1 quality win:
#7 Oklahoma
Alabama had 2 quality wins:
#13 USC
#11 Ohio State
Notre Dame was the obvious and correct choice.
According to the final AP ballot, Notre Dame had 4 quality wins:
#8 Pitt
#13 USC
#19 Clemson
#4 Texas
Arkansas had 1 quality win:
#7 Oklahoma
Alabama had 2 quality wins:
#13 USC
#11 Ohio State
Notre Dame was the obvious and correct choice.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:31 am to The Sultan of Swine
This is Where The Old People Post
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:34 am to pioneerbasketball
quote:
pioneerbasketball
Judging by your registration date, I'm thinking you aren't so young anymore.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:38 am to TxTiger82
quote:
"Worst loss" is not a good criterion. Number of quality wins is much better.
If you lose to a team with a losing record, and there are other teams that finish with the same record, you should not be national champ. Period.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:55 am to pioneerbasketball
Being old only means one has lived. It's cool
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:57 am to TxTiger82
I'm 20 
Posted on 7/8/18 at 11:12 am to The Sultan of Swine
Notre Dame beat the team that beat Arkansas.
Alabama beat the team that beat Notre Dame.
Neither team beat the team that beat Alabama.
Champ: Alabama
Alabama beat the team that beat Notre Dame.
Neither team beat the team that beat Alabama.
Champ: Alabama
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:09 pm to Oklahomey
He missed a foul ball!!!
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:16 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Notre Dame beat the team that beat Arkansas. /thread
‘83 Miami thinks this doesn’t matter very much.
Auburn beat Florida, Florida beat Miami (by 25 fricking points), Miami is clearly the best team. Naturally.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:24 pm to The Sultan of Swine
Notre Dame played a fairly weak schedule in 77 if I remember correctly. I remember going to one of the few non-SC games up at Clemson that year to see Notre Dame and Joe Montana at QB.
If you compare schedules, Notre Dame played the weakest schedule that year as well.
If you compare schedules, Notre Dame played the weakest schedule that year as well.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:32 pm to aufbfan
quote:
‘83 Miami thinks this doesn’t matter very much.
Except for when it's all you got.
Hell, 2011 Alabama thinks head to head doesn't matter very matter very much.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:33 pm to The Sultan of Swine
An AP voter from Indiana voted Alabama 18th in the final poll.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:36 pm to The Sultan of Swine
quote:I was at that game; middle of September in Jackson, mid 90s, real feel on the field was probably 110. ND ran into a buzz saw and combined with the heat, there was really nothing they could do. OM played over their heads, sure but had that game been played anywhere near Indiana, it probably would not have been close. On paper it looks bad but it was not a bad loss given the circumstances.
Notre Dame's worst loss is so bad that a rational voter could easily argue that it disqualifies them from consideration, in comparison to the other two teams.
Posted on 7/8/18 at 12:43 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
21-0
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