re: Map of where each state stands on marijuana laws. :cheers: to Mississippi

His argument is that it won't benefit the economy that much.

He also is more than likely completely unaware of the multitude of uses hemp has.

No way to talk sense into someone who spouts out ignorant stereotypes like that.

Alabama will probably be the last state to legalize.

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His argument is that it won't benefit the economy that much.

He also is more than likely completely unaware of the multitude of uses hemp has.

No way to talk sense into someone who spouts out ignorant stereotypes like that.

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It is absolutely the typical pot lover's fantasy they roll out as exhibit A as to why it should be legal and let me be clear.

I am not saying it won't benefit the economy . I am saying it won't help the economy at all.

I honestly don't care what you in your own home. Want to get drunk or smoke up? Go ahead, just stay off the highway.

Here's the plain facts, If you legalize every single substance, those involved in the illegal production, transport, and distribution of will immediately be pushed aside in favor of legitimate storefronts. Those people aren't going to suddenly say well, the gravy train's over. I guess I'll take that minimum wage job at
Wally's Weed World. He's going to simply change to some other illegal way of making a living. Organized crime didn't go out of business when prohibition was repealed, they just changed hats and kept right on rolling.

Further, the drugs will be taxed so the cost's going to go up. Someone already posted a link about price increases after legalization up thread. The folks that are stealing to support a drug habit now will have to (a) steal more to support a legal habit or (b) smoke less. Option A triggers an increase in crime, option B triggers a decrease in tax revenue.

What will really happen is the same guys selling drugs on the corner will be selling drugs on the same corner. The same cops will be chasing him, and he will end up in the same jail cell. The only difference is the charge will be possession of untaxed drugs instead of possession of a controlled substance.

There will be no major economic change either in terms of increased revenue decreased law enforcement/prison costs.

Colorado's getting a small boost now because it is illegal everywhere else. The second that changes, they'll have to go back to relying on snow covered peaks instead of smoke filled bongs as tourist draws.

Nice try, but a swing and a miss nonetheless.

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The government of Portugal would strongly disagree with pretty much every thing you just said.

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Great example. Let's look at what's happened since they legalized possession for personal use.

Drug related deaths are the same now as before.

Drug abuse treatment centers have seen a four fold increase of cases.

People arrested for illegal trafficking is unchanged.

Street drug prices decreased, but it is important to note that the sale of drugs is still illegal so there's no impact from taxation and regulation.

Portugal's incarceration rate has remained mostly unchanged since legalization.

Portugal's HIV rate is down.

People identified as lifetime users have increased by 50-100% per drug type.

Deaths unchanged, arrests/incarceration unchanged, HIV down, lifetime addicts and treatment seeking up.

Portugal is a fantastic example that legalization changes nothing.

Once more, for the record, I'm not arguing for or against legalization. That's a political question just like gambling, alcohol, prostitution, or any other vice. If the public wants to allow it, so be it.

All I'm saying is that thinking legalization will change any economic or social problems is just plain wrong.

Sources:
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK

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Drug related deaths are the same now as before.

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We're not talking about legalizing possession of everything. This fact shouldn't come as a shock, legal or not there are still significant risks to doing "hard" drugs.

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Drug abuse treatment centers have seen a four fold increase of cases.

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I don't know the driving force, so this is going to all be speculation. This is a good thing. My understanding of Portugal's policy is a greater focus on drug addition as a health problem. So having the numbers increase from treatment centers is a worthy goal. If you have any extra information disproving my hypothesis, please share.

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People arrested for illegal trafficking is unchanged.

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The sale of drugs is still illegal...so what would you expect.

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Portugal's incarceration rate has remained mostly unchanged since legalization.

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What was their policy on busting minor possession compared to the United States? If the police weren't focused on that anyway, this too was basically to be expected.

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Deaths unchanged, arrests/incarceration unchanged, HIV down, lifetime addicts and treatment seeking up.

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Lower HIV rates and more people seeking treatment is a bad change?

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All I'm saying is that thinking legalization will change any economic or social problems is just plain wrong.

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You can't say that with any certainty. Just as I can't say that legalization will help with much certainty. Portugal is just one test case, and there could be other reasons driving those statistics posted. A massive recession since 2008 to start with. There's an old saying about idle hands...

It's an interesting discussion, but it's all we have until we have more test cases to consider. I'm curious to see the effects of marijuana legalization in Co. and Wa. That will at least give us more data to work with.

And you are right, the decriminalization laws have had no affect on Portugal.

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In the face of a growing number of deaths and cases of HIV linked to drug abuse, the Portuguese government in 2001 tried a new tack to get a handle on the problem—it decriminalized the use and possession of heroin, cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other illicit street drugs. The theory: focusing on treatment and prevention instead of jailing users would decrease the number of deaths and infections.

Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006, according to a report released recently by the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C, libertarian think tank.

"Now instead of being put into prison, addicts are going to treatment centers and they're learning how to control their drug usage or getting off drugs entirely," report author Glenn Greenwald, a former New York State constitutional litigator, said during a press briefing at Cato last week.

Under the Portuguese plan, penalties for people caught dealing and trafficking drugs are unchanged; dealers are still jailed and subjected to fines depending on the crime. But people caught using or possessing small amounts—defined as the amount needed for 10 days of personal use—are brought before what's known as a "Dissuasion Commission," an administrative body created by the 2001 law.

Each three-person commission includes at least one lawyer or judge and one health care or social services worker. The panel has the option of recommending treatment, a small fine, or no sanction.

Peter Reuter, a criminologist at the University of Maryland, College Park, says he's skeptical decriminalization was the sole reason drug use slid in Portugal, noting that another factor, especially among teens, was a global decline in marijuana use. By the same token, he notes that critics were wrong in their warnings that decriminalizing drugs would make Lisbon a drug mecca.

"Drug decriminalization did reach its primary goal in Portugal," of reducing the health consequences of drug use, he says, "and did not lead to Lisbon becoming a drug tourist destination."

Walter Kemp, a spokesperson for the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, says decriminalization in Portugal "appears to be working." He adds that his office is putting more emphasis on improving health outcomes, such as reducing needle-borne infections, but that it does not explicitly support decriminalization, "because it smacks of legalization."

Drug legalization removes all criminal penalties for producing, selling and using drugs; no country has tried it. In contrast, decriminalization, as practiced in Portugal, eliminates jail time for drug users but maintains criminal penalties for dealers. Spain and Italy have also decriminalized personal use of drugs and Mexico's president has proposed doing the same. .

A spokesperson for the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy declined to comment, citing the pending Senate confirmation of the office's new director, former Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs also declined to comment on the report.

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I bet the 12 percent of federal prisoners who are in jail for weed charges disagree.

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Just think about their likely socio-economic backgrounds. Do upper class white kids go to jail for pot possession? No...they get lawyers. You know what helps a poor person get a decent job? It's not a felony conviction.

I am just saying that in your example, trafficking still gets arrested. And not a ton of people go to jail (incarcerated) for pot possession unless it is a pretty major charge or they are repeats (usually multiple repeats).

I get the arguments for, but it is not as simple a solution as most people make it out to be.

And you said plant. Should we be allowed to possess coca leaves as well, what about poppy pods?

I think they should be in jail for tax evasion personally.

What about coca leaves and poppy? they are just plants as well.