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re: #tAuburnBasketball Thread
Posted on 4/2/20 at 6:22 am to GenesChin
Posted on 4/2/20 at 6:22 am to GenesChin
Gene I normally agree with you on most things you post but this 5 3 point shooting guys on the floor is not the new normal unless your big can shoot. You still have to have bigs if only for defense. 6' 6" and 6' 7" are not bigs. There's more to basketball then scoring 100. Just like in football there has to be balance. I'm not saying we need a Wiley style player.
Also, wasn't the last national champion a half court set team? Other then the freakish 16/1 loss in the year before they were the overall number 1 in the tourney as well as a half court set team. Not sure how that is a bad team.
Also, wasn't the last national champion a half court set team? Other then the freakish 16/1 loss in the year before they were the overall number 1 in the tourney as well as a half court set team. Not sure how that is a bad team.
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Posted on 4/2/20 at 8:07 am to CorchJay
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if only for defense. 6' 6" and 6' 7" are not bigs
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there has to be balance.
Like our final 4 team whose average lineup had only two players 6'7/6'8?
Or our first SEC run where we ranked #302 nationally in average height and had no player above 6'8?
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There's more to basketball then scoring 100
The objective of the game of basketball is to score more than your opponent. If you score a 3FG shot on every possession, the only way for an opponent to beat you is to also score a 3FG on every possession.
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wasn't the last national champion a half court set team?
I said height doesn't matter (it doesn't). When did I talk trash about half court set teams? Not my preferred style but I respect the hell out of Nova who are predominately half court sets too.
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hey were the overall number 1 in the tourney as well as a half court set team.
You mean the team who couldn't beat us with a post up game because their center was offensively challenged and only 6'9?
The game where we played a 6'7 center and should have won in the final 4?
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 8:16 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 8:28 am to GenesChin
not arguing opinions...
I'll just put this here. There are only 5 teams without a 7 footer in the nba. Of those 5 teams 4 of them have a guy that is 6' 11". Only 1 teams doesn't have at least 1 7 footer or 6'11" guy and that teams has 2 that are 6'10". Facts!
Also on the hyperbole... If you don't let the other team score you'll never lose either. Always more then one way to win or to "not lose".
I'll just put this here. There are only 5 teams without a 7 footer in the nba. Of those 5 teams 4 of them have a guy that is 6' 11". Only 1 teams doesn't have at least 1 7 footer or 6'11" guy and that teams has 2 that are 6'10". Facts!
Also on the hyperbole... If you don't let the other team score you'll never lose either. Always more then one way to win or to "not lose".
Posted on 4/2/20 at 8:33 am to CorchJay
I used to like the shoot em up at the shooty hoops ball, but then I saw the Bama-Auburn game and became disgusted with the ugly aspect of chunking it up there 59 times. It kept them in the game...but it was the reason why they lost too.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 8:37 am to CorchJay
I'm kinda in between both of you. I'm fine with rim running bigs but don't want traditional post players. But you've got to have 4's and 5's that can rebound and you've got to have rim protection.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 8:52 am to CorchJay
quote:
There are only 5 teams without a 7 footer in the nba.
How many quality 7ft players are there in the NCAA? Ones that can do the following
- Post up
- Run with a fast tempo team
- Defend perimeter
- Not get in foul trouble
- Accept entry when defense is fronting the post
On an annual basis, NCAA is lucky to have 1 of those players. Typically it is 0
quote:
Facts!
You mean like the fact that the Rockets went 10-2 with a lineup featuring only players 6'7 and under? That includes starting 2 players who were undrafted former G League players at PF/C.
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Facts!
Or maybe the fact that the NBA post up leader averaged less than 10 post ups per game of 48 minutes.
NCAA players aren't skilled in the post.
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If you don't let the other team score you'll never lose either
Doesn't guarantee that you win though
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 8:53 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 8:55 am to auburnnyc94
Same. Love up tempo basketball. Love the 3 ball. But also know sometimes you can't control tempo and you get into half court games. I think that is what drove Bruce crazy this year was identifying defense when we went open offense in the half court and was slow calling out and running bench called plays.
Like I said we don't have to have a Wiley type back to basket player but we do have to have size for defense and rebounding.
Like I said we don't have to have a Wiley type back to basket player but we do have to have size for defense and rebounding.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 9:09 am to CorchJay
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But also know sometimes you can't control tempo and you get into half court games.
2018 Nova was one of the best half court offenses of all time playing a 6'7 and two 6'9 PF/Cs. They also were #11 in defensive efficiency.
You do not need tall players to play half court defense. You do not need tall players to play half court offense. You do not need tall players to post up.
For example, we could have put Isaac Okoro at C and he would not be a defensive liability + could post up most NCAA big men with his strength/athleticism
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we do have to have size for defense and rebounding.
We need to have strength, athleticism and hustle.
Players, even slightly undersized ones, who exhibit those traits are typically top level post defenders. See Ben Wallace, Rodman, Draymond Green and more
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 9:11 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 9:29 am to GenesChin
True 6' 9" in college is tall bro. That is a legit big especially if he has hops. Bet Wiley doesn't measure 6' 10" if he gets to the nba which I think he will and his frame and size made him look like a giant on the court in college. He will be a designated fouler/punisher/shot blocker and rebounder in the nba.
I think we are saying the same thing however slight disagreement on what is considered a Big... a 6'5" gaurd in flannigan playing the 5 shooting 12% from 3 on the season isn't going to spread the floor. To spread the floor we need shooters that make shots, not just shoots that shoot. We had plenty of those and got bogged down this year because defenses collapsed. Luckily we had 2 really great guys at getting to the rim in Okoro and Samir and a PG that was strong enough to play through contact and take fouls. That's how we won, pound the inside win the foul, rebounding, and turnover margin. Was a great year even if it wasn't as fun as last year as far as flow. Actually won more games this season entering postseason play. Extremely experienced team. Great coaching around what your team can and can't do well.
I think we are saying the same thing however slight disagreement on what is considered a Big... a 6'5" gaurd in flannigan playing the 5 shooting 12% from 3 on the season isn't going to spread the floor. To spread the floor we need shooters that make shots, not just shoots that shoot. We had plenty of those and got bogged down this year because defenses collapsed. Luckily we had 2 really great guys at getting to the rim in Okoro and Samir and a PG that was strong enough to play through contact and take fouls. That's how we won, pound the inside win the foul, rebounding, and turnover margin. Was a great year even if it wasn't as fun as last year as far as flow. Actually won more games this season entering postseason play. Extremely experienced team. Great coaching around what your team can and can't do well.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:11 am to CorchJay
Also weird you post a pic of Rodman. He was a small forward. Great hustle and rebounder. However, the bad boys piston teams had 6 players taller then 6'10" on the roster. The time he spent with the bulls that roster had 5 players over 6' 10". But I never saw Rodman guarding Olajuwon. Actually when Rodman was with the Spurs they wanted to rest David Robinson in the first half of one of the western conference finals game in 1995 and let Rodman try to guard him. Rodman refused.
And finally my last rebuttal and response. The Rockets have 2 league MVPs and are currently sitting in 6th place in the west. With only a legit 7 teams the rest are pure garbage. Congrats on next to last place among the contenters. But they sure can score currently 2nd in scoring in all of the nba.
And finally my last rebuttal and response. The Rockets have 2 league MVPs and are currently sitting in 6th place in the west. With only a legit 7 teams the rest are pure garbage. Congrats on next to last place among the contenters. But they sure can score currently 2nd in scoring in all of the nba.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:26 am to CorchJay
Agreed about the Rockets not being a good example to follow. They only have about a month of data on their PJ Tucker at Center experiment and it has been a very mixed bag thus far.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:46 am to CorchJay
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The time he spent with the bulls that roster had 5 players over 6' 10"
In 96 there were 4 6'10+ players
- Luc "Lucky to be here" Longley
- Kukoc was a perimeter player, not a post
- Parrish was 43 and 10mpg bench player
- Wennington was a 10mpg bench player
The Bulls team would have been better with the following lineup
- Jordan
- Harper or Kerr
- Stretch 4 Pippen
- Small 5 Rodman
- SF Kukoc
Posted on 4/2/20 at 10:47 am to auburnnyc94
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They only have about a month of data on their PJ Tucker at Center experiment and it has been a very mixed bag thus far.
10-2 with wins over the Lakers w/ A.D. and Jazz with DPOY 7'2 Rudy Gobert
Small sample size? Yes.
Mixed bag? No.
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But I never saw Rodman guarding Olajuwon. Actually when Rodman was with the Spurs
Good thing there are no Robinsons or Olajuwons in NCAA. Which is exactly my point. You want to have a 7ft defensive stud to defend mythical opponents who don't exist in the NCAA, let alone on AU's schedule.
If there was a big man renaissance at the NCAA level, with bigs who can defend perimeter + post up effectively, I am 100% with you.
Most opposing big men are at best in the mold of rim running, rim protecting only Rudy Gobert. The Rockets absolutely ate his lunch by pulling him outside the paint on D + forcing him to try and post up (which he can't)
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 10:54 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 11:00 am to GenesChin
Rockets have lost 4 of 5 including to the Hornets, Magic, and Knicks.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 11:02 am
Posted on 4/2/20 at 1:08 pm to jangalang
quote:
I used to like the shoot em up at the shooty hoops ball, but then I saw the Bama-Auburn game and became disgusted with the ugly aspect of chunking it up there 59 times. It kept them in the game...but it was the reason why they lost too.
Made me miss the hell out of it. That game wouldn’t have been close if they hadn’t. They shot better from three than from two.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 1:21 pm to AA7
Will be good to have an elite pure shooter on the roster again next year. It's so much fun to have a Bryce Brown/Justin Powell type on the floor.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 1:22 pm to AA7
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That game wouldn’t have been close if they hadn’t
I miss having the 3 for sure but our offense could at least make the defense play us honest. Bama didn’t run an offense. Their first 3 possessions and an early Auburn 6 point lead in OT is why that system isn’t preferable.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 4/2/20 at 1:55 pm to auburnnyc94
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Rockets have lost 4 of 5 including to the Hornets, Magic, and Knicks.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 3:21 pm to GenesChin
Height is over rated but the ability to protect the rim is not. Other than Stretch we don't have anyone on our roster with the ability to change or alter shots. Listen to Pearl when he talks defense. He is always alluding to rim protection. We had that this year with Wiley and McElmore but both are moving along. Cardwell due to his length can provide that. It's the reason an offensively challenged Horace Spencer was so big for us during his time at Auburn. There are going to be nights where the shots just aren't falling and you can't outscore the other team. When those come along you've got to be able to defend and without a shot blocker on the court we're going to struggle getting stops.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 4:52 pm to GenesChin
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10-2 with wins over the Lakers w/ A.D. and Jazz with DPOY 7'2 Rudy Gobert
Where is this record from? They def lost more than 2 lol
I think small ball works better at the NBA level because you can find a lot of great shooters. I feel like at the college level its very hard to find 5 guys who can shoot from 3 consistently, let alone 5 starters who can do it. Bigs can be pretty valuable when you don't have spacing. I mean we were a 25-6 team and our 3 best players (Doughty, Wiley, and Okoro) all were below 34% from 3.
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