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re: University of Alabama system to review all building names, remove Confederate Army plaques
Posted on 6/8/20 at 7:47 pm to JustGetItRight
Posted on 6/8/20 at 7:47 pm to JustGetItRight
The plaques commemorated a part of UA's history which many find painful. No issue with their removal. However, they're still a part of our history, which is why I'm glad they'll be placed in a museum or in a display rather than destroyed.
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Posted on 6/8/20 at 7:55 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Yeah, this was a bit too glowy.
And a bit too "fake news." One of my Civil War history professors at UA said there was no glorious defense of the campus by the Corps of Cadets. They instead got on the road and marched to Greensboro. Essentially the only person who was there to defend the campus was the president's wife who pleaded with the Union cavalry officers not to burn down the president's mansion.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 8:06 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
And a bit too "fake news." One of my Civil War history professors at UA said there was no glorious defense of the campus by the Corps of Cadets. They instead got on the road and marched to Greensboro. Essentially the only person who was there to defend the campus was the president's wife who pleaded with the Union cavalry officers not to burn down the president's mansion.
I thought the story goes the cadets were marched off to safety instead of facing Union troops. They were ordered into battle but they were basically still children and would have been slaughtered. The President of the University got them out of harm's way and peacefully surrendered the campus rather than make a last stand that would have been a massacre.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 8:07 pm to mre
quote:
The plaques commemorated a part of UA's history which many find painful. No issue with their removal. However, they're still a part of our history, which is why I'm glad they'll be placed in a museum or in a display rather than destroyed.
If they actually put them in appropriate places like museums, actual battlefields, or cemeteries as they say they are doing in Richmond I have no problem with any that get relocated.
quote:
And a bit too "fake news." One of my Civil War history professors at UA said there was no glorious defense of the campus by the Corps of Cadets. They instead got on the road and marched to Greensboro. Essentially the only person who was there to defend the campus was the president's wife who pleaded with the Union cavalry officers not to burn down the president's mansion.
There were no glorious land battles anywhere in the state. By the time Union forces got here there was nobody left but old men and boys - who were facing seasoned veterans. In the places they did stand and fight it ended poorly for them.
The only really competitive battle was the naval battle in Mobile Bay.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 8:39 pm to Fleurs
quote:
I think we won't do that and instead will just remove the plaques honoring treason.
The Confederates were no more treasonous than the dumbshits yelling to defund the police and lighting shite on fire in the streets.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 8:51 pm to pvilleguru
I'm totally of the "losers of rebellions don't get memorials" caucus, and I agree that the language in that plaque is a bit Lost Causy, but some plaque to students (boys) who were prepared to defend their campus before being told to retreat with the historical account is completely in bounds. And I'd be dissapointed if they didn't replace it with such.
Honestly, I wish we had more plaques and historical markers across campus. Not cheerleading statues, historical markers. I used to try to find historical locations from war and civil rights events during undergraduate school and it was extremely difficult.
There are multiple cemeteries dating back to pre-1865 within a mile radius of campus that almost entirely unmarked (or were). I only know one because I was sent there as a pledge.
Honestly, I wish we had more plaques and historical markers across campus. Not cheerleading statues, historical markers. I used to try to find historical locations from war and civil rights events during undergraduate school and it was extremely difficult.
There are multiple cemeteries dating back to pre-1865 within a mile radius of campus that almost entirely unmarked (or were). I only know one because I was sent there as a pledge.
This post was edited on 6/8/20 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 6/8/20 at 8:53 pm to Fleurs
As a black guy this is stupid and pointless just to appease the masses now.. nobody today has enslaved me.. nor has any of us been enslaved. History is what it is.. we learn from it. We don’t want to swing so fast from one side to the other.. that is not what equality is. Trust me when I say if equality is forced and shoved down everyone’s throats racism will get stronger behind closed doors. We need a conversation.. both sides. There is serious issues in the justice system.. but there is also in our neighborhoods. We need to address it all.. when you have gang bangers leading the marches we have lost the point. Taken down a statue won’t change that.. might make you feel good, but pushes us further away from a real conversation and solutions.
This post was edited on 6/8/20 at 8:59 pm
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:07 pm to BamaBo7
I agree with and respect what you posted. Problems get pushed to the side because things get cluttered with a bunch of “background noise”
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:10 pm to BamaBo7
Well said. I agree with every word.
100 times this. I fully support equality if we're talking about equal opportunity, and absolutely believe that is a noble cause. I totally oppose forcing equal outcomes. The only way to get equal outcomes is to actively exclude people who are deserving.
quote:
Trust me when I say if equality is forced and shoved down everyone’s throats racism will get stronger behind closed doors.
100 times this. I fully support equality if we're talking about equal opportunity, and absolutely believe that is a noble cause. I totally oppose forcing equal outcomes. The only way to get equal outcomes is to actively exclude people who are deserving.
This post was edited on 6/8/20 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:14 pm to mre
quote:
The plaques commemorated a part of UA's history which many find painful. No issue with their removal. However, they're still a part of our history, which is why I'm glad they'll be placed in a museum or in a display rather than destroyed.
So this is a purely philosophical question, but to what extent is it now unacceptable to memorialize people who either actively participated in or fought in defense of slavery and/or segregation. I ask because there are literally tens of thousands of places and things in this country and around the world- including a state and our national capitol - named after notable slave owners and Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, and Andrew Jackson.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:19 pm to Robot Santa
I think it's pretty clear that the answer is none. They burned Thomas Jefferson's statue in Birmingham. Could have been just stupidity though.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:21 pm to imjustafatkid
People will want to change the country’s name eventually
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:30 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
I thought the story goes the cadets were marched off to safety instead of facing Union troops.
I believe this is correct. It was quite literally the final month of the CSA and just about everyone in Tuscaloosa knew to mount a defense of the campus would be a wasted effort that would lead to needless death. The Federals burned just about every building on the original campus to the ground. I think the only buildings to survive were the President's Mansion and one or two others.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:35 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I think the only buildings to survive were the President's Mansion and one or two others.
The al.com article I linked a few pages back lists the buildings that survived.
ETA:
quote:
Gorgas House and an observatory, now known as Maxwell Hall, escaped the flames. According to the university, the "Old Observatory" was badly damaged but still structurally sound, and it was used to store anything salvageable from the fire's remains.
Inexplicably, the campus's guard house, an actual military structure, was spared as well. It's known today as the Round House.
The President's Mansion was also set on fire, but it was reportedly saved by the university's First Lady Louisa Frances Garland.
"Upon learning that the campus was burning, she left Bryce Hospital where everyone had taken shelter and raced back to the mansion to defend her property," a virtual campus tour on UA's website reads. "Her strength of will and presence of mind stopped the Federal Army from destroying the mansion and the young Union soldiers even worked to put out the fire they had already started at the place."
This post was edited on 6/8/20 at 9:37 pm
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:39 pm to Robot Santa
quote:
So this is a purely philosophical question, but to what extent is it now unacceptable to memorialize people who either actively participated in or fought in defense of slavery and/or segregation. I ask because there are literally tens of thousands of places and things in this country and around the world- including a state and our national capitol - named after notable slave owners and Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, and Andrew Jackson.
Personally I think the issue is memorializing a rebellion against the current nation in which one of the key differences was ownership of human beings. And a rebellion that was lost.
I withdraw from conversation on removing statues of American founders/figures who lived before 1865 and owned slaves. Personally, I think that the memorials are clearly for their contribution to this nation. It's fair game to also criticize their participation in the great sin of the time, but scrubbing them from time and memorial is rather ridiculous IMHO.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:42 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
. I think the only buildings to survive were the President's Mansion and one or two others.
Presidents Mansion, The Observatory, Gorgas House and The Roundhouse (which was covered in mud as to avoid being able to be lit).
The Jason's have a unique historical tie in with The Roundhouse that my father, a Jason, used to tell us about as little kids.
I love the history of our University and I wish we discussed and labeled it more. It's one of the unique things about the University that others don't possess.
This post was edited on 6/8/20 at 9:43 pm
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:44 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I believe there were a few small buildings around the President's Mansion that also survived.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:46 pm to pvilleguru
I think you are right - they are generally lumped with the Mansion.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:49 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I could be wrong, but I think one or two of the slave quarters behind the President's Mansion are still standing. Although it's possible that they are just replicas.
Posted on 6/8/20 at 9:55 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
I could be wrong, but I think one or two of the slave quarters behind the President's Mansion are still standing. Although it's possible that they are just replicas.
I'm pretty sure you are correct - I was actually going to note they were specifically slave quarters but I couldn't confirm it. However, I'm relatively sure that they are/were.
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