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Thoughts on how to handle blowouts vs conference teams this season?
Posted on 7/18/19 at 9:57 am
Posted on 7/18/19 at 9:57 am
So, this is kind of an odd topic and a "first world problem" type thing, but it was discussed a lot last year and came up in Tua's interview yesterday. Tua said that there were times last year where the starters got into a lul of "do their thing for a little bit and then pass it off to the 2nd team" and that it hurt their killer instinct. Keep in mind, I'm talking about games against other SEC/P5 teams.........not games against NMSU and Western Carolina.
We had a lot of discussions here last year about how to handle the delicate balance of playing with an edge and also not embarassing people. Clearly I think we all agree we want to put in backups in the 4th quarter at some point - it's good sportsmanship and it helps the 2nd teamers get reps in real games against SEC athletes.
However...........I've definitely hit a point, especially after hearing our guys and Saban after last season, that I think that we need to make it a challenege to beat the shite out of whoever we are playing for 3 quarters and, as coach always says, ignore the scoreboard. It doesn't matter. If we are up 77-0 mid-way through the 3rd against Ole Miss, tough shite. We are going to keep playing our guys and running our stuff and we are going to try to punch you in the mouth. If that means we put 80 up, so be it. You are a SEC program, that's a you problem. And even more so, when Mac Jones and Co. come in, they are going to keep running the same stuff as if it is 0-0 as well, because we want them to play with that same sort of attitude as well.
Thoughts? I truly think that hurt us last season especially, and I know that Saban is a football guy who respects coaches and doesn't want to embarrass anyone, but I also think that we do ourselves a major disservice sometimes with taking the foot off the gas basically 2 drives into the 3rd quarter in almost 75% of our games.
It's a very unique issue that not many teams in the history of the sport have had to deal with, but when the ENTIRE foundation of your program is based around kicking the other guys arse 1 play at a time and not paying any attention to the score.........it's pretty hard to basically tell our guys to stand down for 40% of the football game (via playcalling and substitutions) like we did last year.
We had a lot of discussions here last year about how to handle the delicate balance of playing with an edge and also not embarassing people. Clearly I think we all agree we want to put in backups in the 4th quarter at some point - it's good sportsmanship and it helps the 2nd teamers get reps in real games against SEC athletes.
However...........I've definitely hit a point, especially after hearing our guys and Saban after last season, that I think that we need to make it a challenege to beat the shite out of whoever we are playing for 3 quarters and, as coach always says, ignore the scoreboard. It doesn't matter. If we are up 77-0 mid-way through the 3rd against Ole Miss, tough shite. We are going to keep playing our guys and running our stuff and we are going to try to punch you in the mouth. If that means we put 80 up, so be it. You are a SEC program, that's a you problem. And even more so, when Mac Jones and Co. come in, they are going to keep running the same stuff as if it is 0-0 as well, because we want them to play with that same sort of attitude as well.
Thoughts? I truly think that hurt us last season especially, and I know that Saban is a football guy who respects coaches and doesn't want to embarrass anyone, but I also think that we do ourselves a major disservice sometimes with taking the foot off the gas basically 2 drives into the 3rd quarter in almost 75% of our games.
It's a very unique issue that not many teams in the history of the sport have had to deal with, but when the ENTIRE foundation of your program is based around kicking the other guys arse 1 play at a time and not paying any attention to the score.........it's pretty hard to basically tell our guys to stand down for 40% of the football game (via playcalling and substitutions) like we did last year.
This post was edited on 7/18/19 at 10:00 am
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Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:23 am to SummerOfGeorge
I don't know what has caused it, but the past 3 seasons teams late in our schedule have figured out how to slow our offense down and we haven't been able to answer that. We got bailed out against UGA 2 years ago with them not being ready for Tua, then bailed out by Hurts against UGA last year.
But to me, that's a bigger concern, though maybe somewhat related.
But to me, that's a bigger concern, though maybe somewhat related.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:44 am to SummerOfGeorge
The simple answer is to NOT take the foot off the damn gas.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:47 am to SummerOfGeorge
Put the back ups in but let them continue to use the same plays/game plan. Don't just put them in and run 3 plays up the middle and punt.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:48 am to pvilleguru
quote:
Put the back ups in but let them continue to use the same plays/game plan. Don't just put them in and run 3 plays up the middle and punt.
Absolutely agree - it's the biggest contradiction in the program, IMHO. The entire thing is built on dominating your opponent and never taking a play off and yet, when the backups come in we go into a shell and absolutely change the way we play. Players know it.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 10:54 am to SummerOfGeorge
I like when Saban rotates in the younger players with a mixture of starters. The young guys play hard and the experience on the field helps provide them more opportunities to showcase their ability at game speed.
I think Bama has always done a good job under Saban in treating blowouts almost as a scrimmage, as they replace starters back into the game at key times during specific scenarios to get extra reps for that situation.
That said, even during near wholesale changeouts of 1st and 2nd strings, I think it is best to always play the same gameplan. It's a valuable rep for the younger players. If the other team's starters cant stop the opposing teams 2nd or 3rd string players, it's not their fault. The conservative gameplay is mostly sportsmanship. But I have always believed it can lead to complacency or some going half speed, which creates the opportunity for injuries if the other team is still giving full effort.
I think Bama has always done a good job under Saban in treating blowouts almost as a scrimmage, as they replace starters back into the game at key times during specific scenarios to get extra reps for that situation.
That said, even during near wholesale changeouts of 1st and 2nd strings, I think it is best to always play the same gameplan. It's a valuable rep for the younger players. If the other team's starters cant stop the opposing teams 2nd or 3rd string players, it's not their fault. The conservative gameplay is mostly sportsmanship. But I have always believed it can lead to complacency or some going half speed, which creates the opportunity for injuries if the other team is still giving full effort.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 11:21 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
make it a challenege to beat the shite out of whoever we are playing for 3 quarters and, as coach always says, ignore the scoreboard. It doesn't matter. If we are up 77-0 mid-way through the 3rd against Ole Miss, tough shite
this is a slippery slope though, just playing devil's advocate but what will the narrative be if you're up 63-0 midway through the 3rd and tua or another key starters goes down to injury? People woudl be pissed and claim saban is an idiot for leaving the starters in.
Personally I don't think the "lack of killer instinct" thing comes from pulling starters by halftime at all. If anything I'd think conditioning woudl be more directly affected by that. If it's game 3 or 4 or whatever and your starters have all sat the 2nd half the game, I don't think that has one iota to do with the 2nd half of game 11 or 12 or 13.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 11:33 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
this is a slippery slope though, just playing devil's advocate but what will the narrative be if you're up 63-0 midway through the 3rd and tua or another key starters goes down to injury? People woudl be pissed and claim saban is an idiot for leaving the starters in.
Totally agree - it's a very difficult situation and an extremely hard needle to thread.
quote:
Personally I don't think the "lack of killer instinct" thing comes from pulling starters by halftime at all. If anything I'd think conditioning woudl be more directly affected by that. If it's game 3 or 4 or whatever and your starters have all sat the 2nd half the game, I don't think that has one iota to do with the 2nd half of game 11 or 12 or 13.
I don't think it directly does in terms of execution or anything like that, but I think that there is something to always keeping that mindset that can chip away. Is there a solution to it? I don't know.
I think at the very least a solution is that whoever is in the game is running our gameplan and trying to score points. You just cannot stop trying to score for 40% of a football game, especially for 10 of the 12 games. I absolutely think that has an effect, and I think it especially has an effect when the entire structure of your program is built around guys doing their job no matter what is going on around them.
This post was edited on 7/18/19 at 11:34 am
Posted on 7/18/19 at 12:02 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Then we need to manufacture some drama. Start the 3s, bring in the 2s for the 2nd and most of the 3rd quarter, and then bring in the starters after a random TV break in with a few minutes left in the 3rd - hopefully while losing. That'll do it.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 12:07 pm to SummerOfGeorge
There are probably a handful of games that just won't be competitive.
I've thought something like, say Bama is up 28-7 midway through the second quarter to go ahead and start subbing big time.
Game is still in doubt, it's not mop up.
But, regardless of continuing to run the score up, or worse, losing the lead, the starters will come back in at some point.
An example could be loosely, instead of Tua playing the first 2 quarters and that's it, let him play the first quarter, sit the second, play the third, sit the fourth.
I've thought something like, say Bama is up 28-7 midway through the second quarter to go ahead and start subbing big time.
Game is still in doubt, it's not mop up.
But, regardless of continuing to run the score up, or worse, losing the lead, the starters will come back in at some point.
An example could be loosely, instead of Tua playing the first 2 quarters and that's it, let him play the first quarter, sit the second, play the third, sit the fourth.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 12:23 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
what will the narrative be if you're up 63-0 midway through the 3rd and tua or another key starters goes down to injury? People woudl be pissed and claim saban is an idiot for leaving the starters in.
You don't have to go back very far to the time Brodie Croyle blew his knee out on the first series of the 2nd half of a blowout win over Western Carolina. Bama fans were PISSED.
Or when Tyrone Prothro broke his leg on a late game toss to the end zone up big against Florida.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 1:00 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Drop a game early and then develop a sense of urgency.
I’m kidding but that does seem to work more often than not.
I’m kidding but that does seem to work more often than not.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 1:03 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Everyone remembers the Clemson game but we played horribly undisciplined against Oklahoma for the final 2.5 quarters. You hate to say it but Bama played about 4 good quarters combined against Georgia, OU, and Clemson
Posted on 7/18/19 at 1:22 pm to Glorious
let the starters play the opening series. then put in the 2nd string. bring back the starters the series before the half, regardless of the situation. the starters play the second half. even if the second string gets down more than 20 points, the starters dont reenter until the last series prior to the half. forces the starters to stay focused while getting reps under pressure.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 1:40 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:
Drop a game early and then develop a sense of urgency.
I’m kidding but that does seem to work more often than not.
Hahahaha it's so true.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 1:51 pm to SummerOfGeorge
We could start the third string, put the second string in after halftime and have the starters come in at the fourth quarter.
Edit: prevatt beat me to it.
Edit: prevatt beat me to it.
This post was edited on 7/18/19 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 7/18/19 at 2:27 pm to Syd
No worries, friend. You can have that one. I have a new solution.
It's simple. We should play both ways in the first half. The defense plays the whole first quarter. Offense plays the second.
It'd be fine. I'm sure half our defensive backfield played QB in high school. Run 4 verticals with Surtain, Diggs, Jobe, And McKinney. Moses running the Wildcat. Tua can probably play a little Will or Jack. Waddle at Star. We'd be fine.
Bring back the 5-2. Maybe some 5-1-5 Nickle. Damn, I'm excited.
It's simple. We should play both ways in the first half. The defense plays the whole first quarter. Offense plays the second.
It'd be fine. I'm sure half our defensive backfield played QB in high school. Run 4 verticals with Surtain, Diggs, Jobe, And McKinney. Moses running the Wildcat. Tua can probably play a little Will or Jack. Waddle at Star. We'd be fine.
Bring back the 5-2. Maybe some 5-1-5 Nickle. Damn, I'm excited.
This post was edited on 7/18/19 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 7/18/19 at 2:33 pm to prevatt33
quote:
No worries, friend. You can have that one. I have a new solution.
It's simple. We should play both ways in the first half. The defense plays the whole first quarter. Offense plays the second.
It'd be fine. I'm sure half our defensive backfield played QB in high school. Run 4 verticals with Surtain, Diggs, Jobe, And McKinney. Moses running the Wildcat. Tua can probably play a little Will or Jack. Waddle at Star. We'd be fine.
Bring back the 5-2. Maybe some 5-1-5 Nickle. Damn, I'm excited.
COUNT ME IN
Posted on 7/18/19 at 2:34 pm to prevatt33
Here's a good question:
Could we beat Arkansas if we played barefoot?
Could we beat Arkansas if we played barefoot?
Posted on 7/18/19 at 2:37 pm to prevatt33
quote:
Could we beat Arkansas if we played barefoot?
Hmmmmm gonna need to know field conditions
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