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The problem with Hurts
Posted on 1/13/18 at 11:49 am
Posted on 1/13/18 at 11:49 am
The problem with Hurts in 2017 was that he didn't have anyone to develop him as a QB. The success and promise Hurts showed in 2016 was due to one man, Lane Kiffin. He may be a master troll and I'm sure he's a 13 y/o football savant stuck in a grown man's body, but he can make an offense unstoppable with the right pieces.
Hurts needed Lane. Hurts wasn't able to or wanted to take any risks throwing the ball because he wasn't confident in it being the right read or throw. See, Lane drew up the plays and told him which player to throw it to, just like he did with Blake. Lane is a QB whisperer because he just tells them what to do exactly, he takes out the guess work. he sets up opportunities to exploit later with very questionable lead play calls earlier. Lane's genius allowed him to make Hurts look far better. When Lane checked out in the playoffs last year, it showed. I know that we argue that if we had Eddie or SDH last year that we win, but I think if we had Lane against Clemson we blow them out badly. Lane was that good. Daboll, a good OC in his own right, just can't do that. He needs a QB like Tua because Tua understands the finer mechanics a whole lot better.
Hurts needed Lane. Hurts wasn't able to or wanted to take any risks throwing the ball because he wasn't confident in it being the right read or throw. See, Lane drew up the plays and told him which player to throw it to, just like he did with Blake. Lane is a QB whisperer because he just tells them what to do exactly, he takes out the guess work. he sets up opportunities to exploit later with very questionable lead play calls earlier. Lane's genius allowed him to make Hurts look far better. When Lane checked out in the playoffs last year, it showed. I know that we argue that if we had Eddie or SDH last year that we win, but I think if we had Lane against Clemson we blow them out badly. Lane was that good. Daboll, a good OC in his own right, just can't do that. He needs a QB like Tua because Tua understands the finer mechanics a whole lot better.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 11:51 am
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Posted on 1/13/18 at 11:54 am to MontyFranklyn
I don’t think it’s a developmental issue in terms of our end. He had all offseason to work with a coach, either Daboll or private, and he hasn’t improved.
I think he’s just not mentally there, in terms of making reads and confidence. At some point you can’t keep reinventing the wheel and finding ways to mask his deficiencies. Lane did it with his stats in the form of pop passes and scheming wide open receivers, but the passing chart showed how poor he was his freshman year.
Also, I don’t think Washington was a situation where “Lane checked out the playoffs” more than it was Washington looking at our film and realizing we couldn’t throw on a single high safety+stacked box.
I think he’s just not mentally there, in terms of making reads and confidence. At some point you can’t keep reinventing the wheel and finding ways to mask his deficiencies. Lane did it with his stats in the form of pop passes and scheming wide open receivers, but the passing chart showed how poor he was his freshman year.
Also, I don’t think Washington was a situation where “Lane checked out the playoffs” more than it was Washington looking at our film and realizing we couldn’t throw on a single high safety+stacked box.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 11:57 am
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:09 pm to MontyFranklyn
It's a processing speed thing, coaching is only going to help so much. Hurts has to see things open before he can make the throw. Tua can just naturally see where someone is going to be open in 2 seconds. Combine that with a slower than average release and hurts just doesn't have much time to throw, especially against tight coverage. I'm not one of those guys who think hurts it's a bad passer, he's just not a good one. Tua is quite obviously elite in that regard, and that vertical passing threat without losing the these of a qb run or scramble make us much harder to defend. Against good secondaries that can play man coverage, all you have to do to neutralize our offense with hurts at qb is out a spy on him and crowd the box
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:13 pm to MontyFranklyn
Didn't read OP.
Problem was simple:
1. Hurts couldn't read defenses.
2. Couldn't throw receivers open
3. Most importantly he absolutely could not stop himself from leaving the pocket early, and running directly to the right sideline repeatedly.
4. Running to the right sideline repeatedly can not be emphasised enough. It would be comical if it wasn't so frustrating to watch.
5. He had zero confidence in his ability to throw the ball. That's why he wouldn't let it go. He was terrified of making a mistake.
Problem was simple:
1. Hurts couldn't read defenses.
2. Couldn't throw receivers open
3. Most importantly he absolutely could not stop himself from leaving the pocket early, and running directly to the right sideline repeatedly.
4. Running to the right sideline repeatedly can not be emphasised enough. It would be comical if it wasn't so frustrating to watch.
5. He had zero confidence in his ability to throw the ball. That's why he wouldn't let it go. He was terrified of making a mistake.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:18 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Lane is a QB whisperer because he just tells them what to do exactly, he takes out the guess work. he sets up opportunities to exploit later with very questionable lead play calls earlier.
Then he's not a good QB coach. If he was a good QB coach, then he would be teaching the QB's how to do that for themselves.
Seems like a perfect example of giving a man a fish rather than teaching them how to fish.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:23 pm to MontyFranklyn
Threw for under 140 yards 5 of the last 7 games of 2016. Lane was not some genius, hurts still put up shite numbers... y'all just candy coated them.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:25 pm to 3down10
I imagine Lane has sat their in film situations and told guys the process of their reads and where/how they should throw to X/Y/Z receiver in X/Y/Z situation.
You can fix/work on mechanics and footwork. You can teach how to identify what coverage a defense is in and make, at the very least, some adjustments. You can't really "teach" the ability to place the ball well or judge where a receiver is going to be in coverage. You can give a guy situations to practice making those calls but that doesn't mean they'll learn to. Either you get it or you don't.
Also yeah ^^^^, everyone ignored his piss poor stats and put it on the basis of "well we don't NEED to throw so we don't".
You can fix/work on mechanics and footwork. You can teach how to identify what coverage a defense is in and make, at the very least, some adjustments. You can't really "teach" the ability to place the ball well or judge where a receiver is going to be in coverage. You can give a guy situations to practice making those calls but that doesn't mean they'll learn to. Either you get it or you don't.
Also yeah ^^^^, everyone ignored his piss poor stats and put it on the basis of "well we don't NEED to throw so we don't".
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:30 pm to MontyFranklyn
No offense, but I hope this off season doesn’t degenerate into an effort on the part of some to constantly try to resurrect Jalen’s career.
Maybe it’s true that an OC accustomed to NFL arm talent couldn’t figure out how to compensate for Jalen’s shortcomings. But what is the point continuing to lament how we never dumbed down the offense adequately?
We have a qb, why do some of you guys keep wishing him away? And why create a controversy where there is none?
Jalen doesn’t process the field quickly enough to play qb at this level. Period.
Maybe it’s true that an OC accustomed to NFL arm talent couldn’t figure out how to compensate for Jalen’s shortcomings. But what is the point continuing to lament how we never dumbed down the offense adequately?
We have a qb, why do some of you guys keep wishing him away? And why create a controversy where there is none?
Jalen doesn’t process the field quickly enough to play qb at this level. Period.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 12:48 pm to UhOhOreo
quote:
Also yeah ^^^^, everyone ignored his piss poor stats and put it on the basis of "well we don't NEED to throw so we don't".
yep
And the problem with Hurts is the same now as it was last year. He's just not a good quarterback at this level.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:00 pm to Huddie Leadbetter
Saban was totally loyal to Hurts and gave him every opportunity. He yelled at Tua more in one half than he did at Jalen for two years.
I’m convinced that a lot of this was personal. Saban wanted Hurts to be the guy. Ultimately, he just wanted to win more.
I’m convinced that a lot of this was personal. Saban wanted Hurts to be the guy. Ultimately, he just wanted to win more.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:05 pm to River_City_Tider
quote:
He yelled at Tua more in one half than he did at Jalen for two years.
You have obviously never seen a practice lol.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:08 pm to CrimsonBoz
No. But I’ve seen the games. I saw Jalen fumble 9 times last year. I never saw Saban as furious as he was in the final half with Tua.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:12 pm to River_City_Tider
quote:
No. But I’ve seen the games. I saw Jalen fumble 9 times last year. I never saw Saban as furious as he was in the final half with Tua.
Tua made some simple mistakes that upset nick. It’s the natty dude. But Jalen got his arse ripped almost every practice I’ve ever attended. Trust me it happens lol.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:14 pm to CrimsonBoz
Who get yelled at the most? Jalen or Tua?
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:24 pm to Panthers4life
At practice it was always Jalen. But he was getting the most 1st team snaps so it was kind of expected.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 1:24 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
I know that we argue that if we had Eddie or SDH last year that we win, but I think if we had Lane against Clemson we blow them out badly. Lane was that good. Daboll, a good OC in his own right, just can't do that. He needs a QB like Tua because Tua understands the finer mechanics a whole lot better.
Agree with that....if lane hadn't melted down i think we could have made some plays. Defense played well enough to win that game. Offense was a disaster and its not just on Jalen.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:01 pm to MontyFranklyn
I don't think it matters why and I do not care anymore. The kid is an incredible athlete and fierce competitor. He was not a good quarterback however but I will never bash him again. For his sake I hope he is willing to try to play another position if he dreams of being a pro. If he is married to the idea of playing quarterback then he should transfer and seriously consider an option team. I hope he sticks with us as either backup quarterback or as a H-back or maybe even safety.
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:05 pm to CrimsonBoz
quote:
At practice it was always Jalen. But he was getting the most 1st team snaps so it was kind of expected.
Tua is the man but I would expect to see more Saban arse rippings in his future. Hopefully he won't paddle his arse on national TV like he did AJ.
Posted on 1/13/18 at 2:07 pm to 14&Counting
Oh yeah there are arse chewings coming lol. In the interview after the game when saban was talking about missing the signal which caused the interception, Tua was just like Yes sir lol
This post was edited on 1/13/18 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 1/13/18 at 7:34 pm to 14&Counting
quote:He'll just put his arm around him and say, "I got this"
Tua is the man but I would expect to see more Saban arse rippings in his future. Hopefully he won't paddle his arse on national TV like he did AJ.
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