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re: Save Coach Avery Johnson's Job Thread (Postseason edition)
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:47 pm to Fells
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:47 pm to Fells
Where does Avery rank among our head basketball coaches post-Wimp? Because although Wimp never got to a Final Four, I think we'd all be happy with a program that is consistently in the Sweet 16.
Hobbs - 6 seasons - 110-76 overall (.591), 50-46 SEC (.521), two 20-win seasons, two NCAA tourney appearances (2-2 record - deepest run to 2nd round), two NIT appearances
Gottfried - 11 seasons - 210-131 overall (.616), 83-82 SEC (.503), five 20-win seasons, five NCAA tourney appearances (5-5 record - deepest run to Elite 8), three NIT appearances
Grant - 5 seasons - 117-85 overall (.579), 54-49 SEC (.524), three 20-win seasons, one NCAA tourney appearance (0-1 record - never got out of first round), three NIT appearances
Johnson - 3+ seasons - 69-52 overall (.570), 29-31 SEC (.483), one 20-win season, one NCAA tourney appearance (1-1 record - deepest run to 2nd round), two NIT appearances
I personally believe he is second best to Gottfried and think that unless this season just tanks, he will be back for a fifth season. It's worth noting, though, that his overall win percentage is the worst on this list, as is his SEC win percentage (I will give you that the league is much tougher now than when Grant was on the sidelines).
Hobbs - 6 seasons - 110-76 overall (.591), 50-46 SEC (.521), two 20-win seasons, two NCAA tourney appearances (2-2 record - deepest run to 2nd round), two NIT appearances
Gottfried - 11 seasons - 210-131 overall (.616), 83-82 SEC (.503), five 20-win seasons, five NCAA tourney appearances (5-5 record - deepest run to Elite 8), three NIT appearances
Grant - 5 seasons - 117-85 overall (.579), 54-49 SEC (.524), three 20-win seasons, one NCAA tourney appearance (0-1 record - never got out of first round), three NIT appearances
Johnson - 3+ seasons - 69-52 overall (.570), 29-31 SEC (.483), one 20-win season, one NCAA tourney appearance (1-1 record - deepest run to 2nd round), two NIT appearances
I personally believe he is second best to Gottfried and think that unless this season just tanks, he will be back for a fifth season. It's worth noting, though, that his overall win percentage is the worst on this list, as is his SEC win percentage (I will give you that the league is much tougher now than when Grant was on the sidelines).
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Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:48 pm to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
I don't think expecting two tourney appearances in four years is asking much.
It's not that much, but it's more than we've gotten on average in the post-Wimp era, an era that now spans nearly 26 years. That's a total of nine NCAA appearances in 25 seasons.
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:50 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Some fans have unrealistic expectations for our success
Tennessee is ranked #1 right now with a third year head coach
Most of us understand this isn’t Alabama football, but there’s no reason this team shouldn’t consistently be one of the best 4 in the league and consistently a 2-7 seed in March. Instead we are a consistent bubble team that plays sloppy basketball. It isn’t unrealistic to expect better than the body of Avery’s work to this point
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:55 pm to Bham Bammer
quote:
I personally believe he is second best to Gottfried
That's not saying much.
It's like trying to decide who was our best football coach between 1998-2006.
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:59 pm to pvilleguru
I didn't say it was. The difference is that our basketball program spans a fairly long period of mediocrity, not just eight seasons. It's hard to reconcile our basketball failures when they've lasted damn near a quarter of a century. Yes, we can do better, but the data pretty well reveals this program for what it is.
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 1:34 pm to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
Tennessee is ranked #1 right now with a third year head coach
Most of us understand this isn’t Alabama football, but there’s no reason this team shouldn’t consistently be one of the best 4 in the league and consistently a 2-7 seed in March. Instead we are a consistent bubble team that plays sloppy basketball. It isn’t unrealistic to expect better than the body of Avery’s work to this point
UTenn lucked out with Barnes. He made the NCAA tournament at Texas 16 out of the 17 years that he was there. He is a better coach than Johnson. That sucks, but it is what it is. Also, he is in his 4th year at Tennessee.
I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, except I don't really think that our bar is as high as "2-7 seed in the NCAAT" every year. I think that we are pretty close to being a top 4 team in the SEC though, and we will see how this season goes. I will change my tune if we fail to make the tournament this year.
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 2:12 pm to Tider95
quote:
beating the best team in the country
Far from the best team. You're crazy if you think they are on same level as Duke.
quote:
lol how spoiled we are
Wouldn't call spoiled but basic fundamentals go a long way in closing out games on the road. It's why Avery got fired from the Mavericks because he's not a good x and o coach. This is why I think it's time to move on is because he can recruit good talent but I don't think he can coach a complete package to the floor.
I'll take a fundamental x and o coach who's a decent recruiter. We won't have a top team every year no matter what but Wimp had us consistent with the chance of having a really good team every 3 to 5 years.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 2:48 pm to 615tider
quote:
Are we really going to find a better coach and see anything different?
#KeepMikeShula2K7
Posted on 1/23/19 at 2:50 pm to bamabkj
quote:
We won't have a top team every year no matter what but Wimp had us consistent with the chance of having a really good team every 3 to 5 years.
Wasn't the Gottfried era even more consistent? A perennial tournament presence, high rankings, good athletes, good home court, our highest finish in the tourney, #1 ranking in 2002, Peaking at #4 in 2005 before the decline began.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 3:42 pm to Lordofwrath88
quote:
#KeepMikeShula2K7
We're not a basketball school trying to return to glory.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 5:16 pm to Lordofwrath88
quote:
Wasn't the Gottfried era even more consistent?
Posted on 1/23/19 at 8:28 pm to Bham Bammer
I don't think it's too much to ask to make the tournament almost every year when 20% of D1 gets there and an even larger percentage of P5 schools make it.
ETA: UT got lucky with Barnes? We had the same opportunity to hire Rick Barnes; a coach that has a connection to Alabama. So who made the better hire and who made the not-so-smart one?
ETA: UT got lucky with Barnes? We had the same opportunity to hire Rick Barnes; a coach that has a connection to Alabama. So who made the better hire and who made the not-so-smart one?
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 1/24/19 at 4:56 am to phil4bama
Looking at what Barnes is doing... well, hummmm?
It is interesting that Avery has beat UK and almost U10rc this year and beat down a ranked Olemiss team... but has lost 3 SEC games (seems that is the record 3-3) But, agree seems it is not too much to ask for the team to make the tournament almost every year.
It is interesting that Avery has beat UK and almost U10rc this year and beat down a ranked Olemiss team... but has lost 3 SEC games (seems that is the record 3-3) But, agree seems it is not too much to ask for the team to make the tournament almost every year.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 9:41 am to phil4bama
quote:
UT got lucky with Barnes? We had the same opportunity to hire Rick Barnes; a coach that has a connection to Alabama.
What is the story there? Did we try and go after Barnes? Or was it as simple as you are saying, we picked Johnson over Barnes?
Posted on 1/24/19 at 9:55 am to Funky Tide 8
quote:
What is the story there?
Battle put all his eggs in the Greg Marshall basket. By the time Greg had resigned with Wichita State, UT had already hired Barnes.
Given the all or nothing approach it seemed like Battle took, we got lucky to get Avery and not someone much worse.
My understanding is Avery reached out to Battle for the job. Even though I don't think Avery is very good, he may actually be Battle's best hire
This post was edited on 1/24/19 at 9:59 am
Posted on 1/24/19 at 9:58 am to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
Battle put all his eggs in the Greg Marshall basket. By the time Greg had resigned with Wichita State, UT had already hired Barnes.
Given the all or nothing approach it seemed like Battle took, we got lucky to get Avery and not someone much worse.
Okay, so Battle pushed really hard to get who all of us initially wanted, and it didn't work out, and Barnes was already taken. So it wasn't as simple as 'Johnson over Barnes.'
Like I originally said: it is what it is.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 10:03 am to Funky Tide 8
I think I'd take the UT job over the Bama job in basketball anyways. Thompson-Boling is a nice arena, and UT is close to good recruiting areas like Nashville, North Carolina, and I know Memphis is pretty far but it's still got the state school draw from there.
It seems like it's easier for them to get good OOC opponents too because they're close to so many of the traditional ACC teams.
It seems like it's easier for them to get good OOC opponents too because they're close to so many of the traditional ACC teams.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 10:13 am to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
think I'd take the UT job over the Bama job in basketball anyways. Thompson-Boling is a nice arena, and UT is close to good recruiting areas like Nashville, North Carolina, and I know Memphis is pretty far but it's still got the state school draw from there.
It seems like it's easier for them to get good OOC opponents too because they're close to so many of the traditional ACC teams.
Agreed.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 7:54 pm to Panthers4life
quote:
Do not Fire Coach Avery Johnson Thread
In.
Coaching in the NBA and coaching in college are very different things. It is clear Avery is still learning on the job.
And I'm OK with that. Recruiting is good and this team has a very high ceiling.
Besides: who are we going to get? Avery's a good brand and face of the program. Which helps the aforementioned recruiting.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 8:12 pm to Funky Tide 8
I am 100% buckled back up. I really think Avery is starting to build a team (long, athletic shooters) that he wants, and we are reaping the rewards now.
I mean let’s be honest, he got stuck with some trash players, and he recruited some mistakes, but it’s finally starting to come together.
Seriously, which Coach is going to make a run with Jimmie Taylor, Bola, Dazon, Avery Jr, Corban Collins, Braxton Key, Ar’Mond Davis, a fatter Alex Reese, Brandon Austin, Shannon Hale, etc. There are some average players at best in that bunch, but you aren’t going to put your fingerprints on College Basketball or be a consistent March Madness team with that caliber of players.
I’m not sure what the big fuss is about. He made the Tourney in Year 3. If we don’t match up with the eventual National Champs in Round 2, we might make the damn Sweet 16. Year 4, we are in even better shape than season 3, and many have admitted this years team is the most talented team he’s had at Bama. Is that a bad thing or something? I’m as excited as heck.
Maybe you’re all concerned about the future? Well, I have news for you folks, the 2020 team looks to be even more loaded than this one, with or without Trendon Watford..
PG: Kira Lewis/Jaden Shackelford/Dazon Ingram
SG: John Petty/Jaylen Forbes/Diante Wood
SF: Trendon Watford/Juwan Gary
PF: Herbert Jones/Tevin Mack
C: Galin Smith/Alex Reese
^^ look out in 2020, for real.
Avery has figured out what he wants, shooters, shooters, shooters, shooters, length, athleticism, shooters, shooters, and more shooters. As his teams have closer met his expectations, we have improved. He’s not recruiting Dazon Ingram’s & Galin Smith’s anymore, he’s recruiting Juwan Gary’s and Drew Timme’s now. Give Coach some time, we are getting better, and the future is very very bright. That 2020 projected Line-up is the real deal folks.
I mean let’s be honest, he got stuck with some trash players, and he recruited some mistakes, but it’s finally starting to come together.
Seriously, which Coach is going to make a run with Jimmie Taylor, Bola, Dazon, Avery Jr, Corban Collins, Braxton Key, Ar’Mond Davis, a fatter Alex Reese, Brandon Austin, Shannon Hale, etc. There are some average players at best in that bunch, but you aren’t going to put your fingerprints on College Basketball or be a consistent March Madness team with that caliber of players.
I’m not sure what the big fuss is about. He made the Tourney in Year 3. If we don’t match up with the eventual National Champs in Round 2, we might make the damn Sweet 16. Year 4, we are in even better shape than season 3, and many have admitted this years team is the most talented team he’s had at Bama. Is that a bad thing or something? I’m as excited as heck.
Maybe you’re all concerned about the future? Well, I have news for you folks, the 2020 team looks to be even more loaded than this one, with or without Trendon Watford..
PG: Kira Lewis/Jaden Shackelford/Dazon Ingram
SG: John Petty/Jaylen Forbes/Diante Wood
SF: Trendon Watford/Juwan Gary
PF: Herbert Jones/Tevin Mack
C: Galin Smith/Alex Reese
^^ look out in 2020, for real.
Avery has figured out what he wants, shooters, shooters, shooters, shooters, length, athleticism, shooters, shooters, and more shooters. As his teams have closer met his expectations, we have improved. He’s not recruiting Dazon Ingram’s & Galin Smith’s anymore, he’s recruiting Juwan Gary’s and Drew Timme’s now. Give Coach some time, we are getting better, and the future is very very bright. That 2020 projected Line-up is the real deal folks.
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