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OT - Alabama Politics - Just watched Atticus v. The Architect
Posted on 8/25/20 at 7:50 am
Posted on 8/25/20 at 7:50 am
OK, so I obviously don't live in AL but grew up in Meridian, MS. That documentary is shocking. It is obviously told from one side, but it painted a horrible picture of AL politics and the U.S. justice system overall. I just wondered if someone here could give different perspective.
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Posted on 8/25/20 at 8:56 am to BamaReb
I haven't watched it, but I had just moved back here to Bama just as the Seigelman and Scrushy stuff started coming to a head. I've forgotten a lot about it, but recall it being very, very dirty, and I recall some rumblings that either George W Bush or someone in his administration had a personal grudge with Seigelman. Forget what the grudge was about. Was it Karl Rove or Rumsfeld? Wish I could recall.
Posted on 8/25/20 at 9:01 am to BamaReb
Democracy, LOL.....
Posted on 8/25/20 at 9:26 am to BamaReb
quote:
It is obviously told from one side
It is.
quote:
horrible picture of AL politics
Montgomery is a cesspool. Mike Hubbard still hasn't gone to jail for being corrupt.
quote:
I just wondered if someone here could give different perspective.
Seigelman was absolutely 100% guilty. Someone in the fedgov's personal vendetta is only relevant in that Seigelman wasn't able to get away with it as some others have.
Alabama politics is terribly dysfunctional, and has been for the better part of 200 years. As far as corruption goes, I'd say we're a solid historical 4th, behind Louisiana, Illinois, and New York.
Posted on 8/25/20 at 9:52 am to Evolved Simian
Some place can handle democracy and others need an alternative system. 'bama would be better off being decentralized more with Montgomery being irrelevant.
Posted on 8/25/20 at 10:08 am to The Spleen
Rove was portrayed as the bad guy pulling the strings, thus "The Architect."
Posted on 8/25/20 at 10:36 am to BamaReb
I'm friends with Joseph, and many phi gams, and would sit in their section sometimes when I was in school. Don would come sit with him some games. Nice guy.
Posted on 8/25/20 at 11:19 am to BamaReb
Don was guilty as hell. So was Scrushy. Scrushy originally beat the feds by selecting Donald Watkins as his lead attorney. Check out that episode on the Netflix doc, "Trial By Media." Good stuff.
Also for laughs, read Mike Hubbard's book "Storming the State House." Hubbard painted Don as corrupt while simultaneously doing his own dirt (which wasn't covered in the book, of course).
Also for laughs, read Mike Hubbard's book "Storming the State House." Hubbard painted Don as corrupt while simultaneously doing his own dirt (which wasn't covered in the book, of course).
This post was edited on 8/25/20 at 11:21 am
Posted on 8/25/20 at 12:02 pm to stomp
what was he guilty of?
Posted on 8/25/20 at 4:35 pm to stomp
quote:
Scrushy originally beat the feds by selecting Donald Watkins as his lead attorney.
Didn't he also "find God" and start a religious public access show that aired in Birmingham around that time? Effectively getting the Birmingham jury pool thinking he was deeply religious.
That may have been his corporate fraud trial. The two kind of run together.
Posted on 8/25/20 at 4:59 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I recall some rumblings that either George W Bush or someone in his administration had a personal grudge with Seigelman
BS
Posted on 8/25/20 at 9:24 pm to The Spleen
Karl Rove, I think.
Posted on 8/25/20 at 11:33 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Didn't he also "find God" and start a religious public access show that aired in Birmingham around that time? Effectively getting the Birmingham jury pool thinking he was deeply religious.
Don't forget the black church he and Leslie joined and funded off John Rogers Drive.
Posted on 8/26/20 at 8:12 am to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Nice guy.
My dad was heavily involved in the state level Republican party in the 80s. Said he always liked Don as a person. Always had an easy time dealing with him. Seemed like a decent fellow.
Ya just never know with people.
This post was edited on 8/26/20 at 8:13 am
Posted on 8/26/20 at 10:04 am to BamaReb
quote:
It is obviously told from one side
I had never heard of this documentary until reading about it here, and watched the first half last night on Amazon Prime.
Holy smokes, that was so one-sided that it actually became laughable.
The sad music over pictures of Siegelman with the "common man," almost exclusively interviewing former staff, lawyers, and family, and the narrator making comments like, "So it was obvious that there was no possible way he was telling the truth" really put me off.
I'm interested in hearing information from all sides in order to form an opinion, and this played out like an extended political commercial filled with deprecative lawyer-speak.
My favorite part so far was when they casually mentioned that Siegelman's mid-level staffer got caught taking $100k in bribes, and then they proceeded to explain how you should be upset that the prosecution was mean to him (peppered with bonus mea culpas from Tommy Gallion).
It's obvious that a huge level of debauchery took place on both sides, and to see it portrayed as a hit piece against a totally "innocent" and well-intentioned group of people (including Richard-freaking-Scrushy) is just too much.
What was the motivation of this documentary? Did Siegelman and Scrushy pay for this production?
Do they eventually discuss the events from any other perspective or with varying opinions of what happened?
Posted on 8/26/20 at 2:13 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I've forgotten a lot about it, but recall it being very, very dirty, and I recall some rumblings that either George W Bush or someone in his administration had a personal grudge with Seigelman.
That's a narrative Seigelman's defense team tried to spin that took root with some people that didn't really follow the case - particularly the trial. The theory they spun was that Bill Canary (Business Council of Alabama) was out to get Siggy and he used his wife Laura (US Attorney for the middle district) to do it. They drew Rove into the mix because he was the go-to (R) bad guy of the day.
There were/are a multitude of problems with the theory - the biggest is that the case wasn't overseen by the middle district. It was headed up by the DOJ's public integrity unit out of DC. They didn't even operate out of the DOJ's Montgomery office. They set up operations in an old WW2 hanger out at Maxwell - which was also spun to be something elaborate. It had nice equipment, but the AC went out all the time and it had one narrow stairwell up to it that was lit by a single 60 watt bulb.
The second was that Don didn't gain anything, which wasn't true. He'd signed a personal guarantee on a very large ($500k IIRC) loan to fund the pro-lottery campaign under the assumption that when the lottery passed he'd have no problem finding donors to pay it off - except the lottery didn't pass. He was on the hook for all of it and what most folks don't know is that he wasn't a wealthy man. He'd spent his entire life in public service - and 500k was a lot of money to him. Scruschy wanted on the CON (Certificate of Need) board. Don needed a loan paid off. Round peg met round hole.
Don also surrounded himself with really, really dirty people like Lanny Young and Nick Bailey that cared the absolute most about helping themselves and he trusted them.
Finally, Don made some really stupid moves by lying about relatively insignificant things. For example, Young bought a motorcycle for Seigleman to use. When the feds got to sniffing around, it got moved to Bailey's house and Bailey wrote a check to 'buy' it from Young. Don said under oath he didn't know anything about the motorcycle - which was a hard position to defend when multiple pictures from different times were produced showing him and Lori riding on it. Ain't NOBODY going to get very worked up about the Gov keeping and riding a motorcycle loaned to him by a supporter - until he hides it at an aide's house and lies to the FBI about it.
No less than AL.com's own prospective ANTIFA recruit Kyle Whitmire has written several times that after attending the trial he came away convinced Seigleman was guilty and he's right.
As you can probably tell I had involvement in a past job and Whitmire is right, Don was guilty. Having said that, I've always felt like he wasn't a bad guy. He so passionately believed that the lottery was right for Alabama that he put his money where his mouth was - but it was money he didn't have. He was in a really tight spot even after selling his house to a supporter for twice it's appraised value.) He needed a way out, and Scrushy (who was dirtier than a pig farm) made an offer that was just too tempting.
This post was edited on 8/26/20 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 8/26/20 at 3:31 pm to McGregor
quote:
what was he guilty of?
Lying under oath, and not having the right friends.
Posted on 8/26/20 at 3:51 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Didn't he also "find God" and start a religious public access show that aired in Birmingham around that time? Effectively getting the Birmingham jury pool thinking he was deeply religious.
That may have been his corporate fraud trial. The two kind of run together.
Yes. The documentary on Netflix makes the citizens of Birmingham look like complete idiots. He set out to completely taint the jury pool, and succeeded, simply by joining a black church and starting a weekly TV show (that he funded) with local Birmingham black pastors.
Posted on 8/26/20 at 4:27 pm to JustGetItRight
Appreciate the other side to balance things out a little. I watched that and was like WTF...nobody is getting away with all of that, there must be a lot missing. I'll have to go back and look at who produced that. There's probably a story there too.
So was Riley as dirty as they made him appear?
So was Riley as dirty as they made him appear?
Posted on 8/26/20 at 5:53 pm to stomp
quote:
what was he guilty of?
Lying under oath, and not having the right friends.
And selling a seat on the CON.
He should have learned from Blagojevich that shite will get you locked up.
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