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SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

Interesting post re: our OL and Saban's comments on it from BOL

Viggo is really good and knowledgeable, posts "long form" posts quite a bit. I didn't realize his background was OL coaching, but since it was this is even more interesting in the detail and review of how we played early vs late at Auburn.


quote:


Do you really listen when CNS speaks?

viggo214
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Monday presser when asked about correcting issues with pass and run blocking: "I think we've got to play more physical. I think we've got to be more aggreassive in terms of how we come out of our hips, come out with power, whatever it is. We've got to try to dicate in the run game. We did a better job of that in the second half (against Auburn). We've got to give our players a chance with advantage runs. Pass protection was an issue at times. We've just got to do a better job of staying square, the quarterback has got to do a better job in the pocket so the O-line knows where he is going to be. So there's a lot of things we need to work on when it comes to pressures. We've got to have a good plan for how we block them. There's a lot of things we're capable of improving, and I have a lot of confidence in how the players are trying to get that done this week."

It's right there in front of your face. Let me help those of you who don't translate Sabanese well. The first two sentences are indicative that he is not happy with their technique, in trying to be a little more versatile and adaptable in terms of assigning threats that they have become to upright and passive. Later in the game, with the type of running plays, especially the zone concepts, they became more explosive out of their stances and got much better movement. As an old OL coach and someone who has always had a love and appreciation for blocking concepts and philosophy, watching 300 lb men stand upright and lean on each other is sickening, and I am seeing a rebound from this philosophy and a return to more aggressive, explosive individiual technique where OLs fire from a stance and roll their hips on contact again. I used to tell my kids, "the only thing you can do standing up is stand next to me on the sideline" and I still feel like there is truth there. Coach is calling for more physicality and explosiveness and less lockstep technique, and doing it publicly.

The phrases, "dictate in the run game", and "We've got to give our players a chance with some advantage runs" are critical. This goes to design and play-calling. Much has been made about the audibles at the LOS and the time-pressure they put on the offense in general, and the load they put on BY in particular, and I am in partial agreement with that idea, though many are going overboard and ignoring the advantages they have gained at times, and I too would like to see some tempo and some designed "easy gain" plays given to the offense to "prime the pump" if the offense stalls a bit. Here, we see Saban discussing this in terms of the running game specifically, and the offense in general. You dictate in the running game by creating matchups and by playing to your strengths. Understand your players, understand the weaknesses of the opponent, and create "wins" for your players so that the offense gets a bit of steam to get it going if it is not organically rolling. For all the abuse that Bobo took this year at Auburn, he did a really good job of scripting some of those plays for Finley to keep their offense moving from time to time, and Saban is calling for BOB to design and call plays that give the offense some wins to keep it going. In the passing game, you do this with quick throws and flooding areas, and in the running game its about creating space and advantage matchups.

The discussion about staying square agains goes to technique, but also to design. In trying to be very versatile and mobile in pass blocking, the problem is make sure that you don't get so caught up chasing threats that you get "wrong-footed" and then can't get re-established and have the strong base necessary to stop the rush of a 280+ defender. Go back and watch, and see how often pressure came when the OL was in position to make the necessary block, but was getting moved because he had no base. I agree with Huskypup on the pass blocking of Sanders, and the key was his ability to create a base and absorb the rush. One of the real problems Owens has had all year was his struggle to re-establish a base when dealing with a "chang-of-pace" rusher, or someone who stop and starts. Cohen especially seems to have issues with this, though he did seem to be better with McLaughlin in the game. Additionally, he mentions the QB understanding the pocket. This is one of my long-standing bugaboos. You have to remember that the OL has their backs to the QB, and in protecting him and forming a "pocket" they do so with a mental image of where he is. He should have a normal "drop" depth and then, if the pocket has pressure, climb back towards them. The key is what is "pressure"? Sometimes, fans see a defender within a couple of yards of the QB or rushing by him and assume the OL got beat, but if the OL is still in contact, or if he is pushing the rusher past the QB, that is not pressure. The QB has to understand this, and to react accordingly. For all the calls for BY to run more, I thought one of the big issues I would have had with him Saturday was his abandoning the pocket too quickly. He ran into a couple of sacks, and short-circuited the reads on some others. If you want good protection, you have to help the OL know where you are so that they can manuever around that spot. Most of you will remember Gary Hollingsworth, but I played with his older brother Ryan, who was an exceptional athlete, but as a QB, he drove me crazy because he was so dependent on his on athleticism that he would bail to soon, or drift in the pocket, and you would be blocking your guy and thing you had room to absorb a move or shunt him to a dead area, and you would push him right into the QB. King at Miami, and Houston before that, always had high sack totals for the same reason.

Finally, he finishes with a discussion of the need to have "good plan" for pressures, which is the accumulation of pass rush, blitzes, games, stunts and anything designed to confuse blocking and create penetration. If you follow Saban closely, instead of saying "we are working to have a good plan", or "I expect us to ahve a good plan", he says we need to "have a good plan". This is the equivalent of challenging a player in front of the press, as he has a few times this year. BOB is being told to have a better plan for these situational issues, to "help" BY and the offense with some plays desinged to get wins and prime the pump, and for the OL to be more focused on being physical at the point of contact and eliminate some of the excess clutter.

I have my own conclusions about this in a mega-scale, and you can draw your own, but the statement is, to my mind, clear and unambiguent. The challege has been made, in a very public way, and I am interested to see the response on Saturday.
This post was edited on 12/1 at 10:42 am


Bham Bammer
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2014
11921 posts

Thanks for sharing, SOG.

I don't like the RPO run game stuff. To me it makes your linemen too timid.

Last year was such a joy to watch with RPO being a much more limited part of what we were doing. Downhill running with Najee and play-action with Mac and those receivers. Damn. It was beautiful.
This post was edited on 12/1 at 10:40 am


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120
TidalSurge1
Alabama Fan
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
33784 posts
 Online 

Viggio is my favorite poster on BOL.


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

quote:

Viggio is my favorite poster on BOL.



His posts are really great


LittleJerrySeinfield
Alabama Fan
Glass Case of Emotion
Member since Aug 2013
4740 posts

So Saban agrees with us that Marrone sucks.


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190
TidalSurge1
Alabama Fan
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
33784 posts
 Online 

Yep. HuskyPup is right up there with him.


UltimaParadox
Alabama Fan
Huntsville
Member since Nov 2008
26016 posts

Never been BOL subscriber... You guys find it worth it?

Been on TI for a while
This post was edited on 12/1 at 10:47 am


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

quote:

Yep. HuskyPup is right up there with him.



Yea - Husky is more of a stat nerd guy and viggo more of a football centric guy, so they play well together really well.

There aren't many posts on BOL from regular posters that I look for and read, but if I see one started by either of them I generally make a point to read it.


alabamabuckeye
Alabama Fan
Member since Jun 2010
21435 posts

I just don’t get how Saban can say all those things but if the fans point this shite out it means we are entitled.


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

quote:

Never been BOL subscriber... You guys find it worth it?

Been on TI for a while



I've been using my dad's subscription since I had it logged in and saved on all the computers in Bashinsky Computer Lab back in 2004

So, it's definitely worth it to me. Lots of value for $0!


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Bham Bammer
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2014
11921 posts

I'll be interested to see honestly how much Georgia tries to bring extra pressure. There's a couple of things to consider:

1. We have been affected the most when the opponent brings 5+ rushers. LSU and Auburn seemed to routinely bring 6.

2. Kirby doesn't like to blitz. I think we all pretty much remember that from his time here. He prefers to go straight up and let his athletes beat your athletes. It was remarkable how much more aggressive the defense here became when Pruitt took over.

3. UGA probably thinks it can win just bringing four. They may be right, but this is where Saban saying BOB needs to have a plan for pressure is important. We cannot leave our RT (I'm assuming it will start out as Owens) by himself out there play after play. Got to have a TE chip, a RB chip, or have them just stay in totally.

4. I know we'd all like to see an occasional true delay screen to the RB or TE. However, unless we catch them in a blitz, UGA's defense will destroy those plays. That's what was so maddening about the Auburn game. They were blitzing nearly every play. We could have had a field day. Hopefully if they rush four we can hold our own and force them into more blitzing.


Panthers4life
Alabama Fan
Huntsville
Member since Nov 2017
2886 posts

I love posters like that, would be nice to reach out to them and have them post over here as well. I love huskypup posts before they went VIP. SOG is up there with huskypup.


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30
Bham Bammer
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2014
11921 posts

quote:

I just don’t get how Saban can say all those things but if the fans point this shite out it means we are entitled.


Saban didn't "say" all those things, though. The poster is just reading between the lines. Saban didn't say, "Bill sucks and needs to figure it out" or "Doug better coach his arse off because he's been bad."

Now, I don't agree with Saban on criticism in general, but it's hard to disagree that a huge portion of this fanbase is entitled.


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61
SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

Yea, the blitzing vs not-blitzing stuff will definitely be interesting.

The difference between us vs teams bringing overwhelming numbers and teams not is massive. Auburn and LSU went jailhouse blitz for large chunks of the games, and A&M's only real pressure was when they brought numbers.

Bryce Young
When Blitzed - 84 pressures (14 sacks) on 178 dropbacks (47.2%) (7.9%)
No Blitz - 82 pressures (16 sacks) on 304 dropbacks (27.0%) (5.3%)

Auburn was really the only game where we seemed to almost just get flustered up front and eventually starting giving up pressures even when blitzes weren't coming (on the right side before Owens came in).

When teams, even teams with good front people (not UGA good, mind you) haven't blitzed, we've kept Bryce relatively clean. Most of his sacks in those situations are more coverage sacks than anything. Georgia has better dudes up front than anybody we've seen, but without Anderson their non-blitz pass rush is definitely lessened.
This post was edited on 12/1 at 11:00 am


AjA77
Alabama Fan
Member since Aug 2015
1067 posts

Emil has a bad habit of always coming out his stance to high and gives up his big base to often.
Its why I posted about Laythem getting a shot there because he stays a little lower, but also uses his length.I also posted how our guys like George look like a kid playing for the first time who needed to be told its ok to be mean.
I will say our young kids over think and look scared to make mistakes trying to make plays.I understand it takes time when your a younger player to deal with When really Saban getting on you is just coach shaping you up for what you can be.

As for the part about knowing were the QB is and its affect on sacks.

Its been a great compromise and again its just my view an I am not saying its 100% right.
So Bryce Young goes a little deeper on drops and this actually helps DE get to him easier because by not stepping up as much, there is no bringing the DE back to the tackle(loop back).So speed rushers have an advantage and we dont have a speed back to run inside of that and #55 does not hold his block well enough.

But the flip side is it has helped Bryce height wise and he makes up for the extra depth with arm strength.
Now early on that made a few balls be off the hands area and more near shoulders. It why Metchie had to adjust(tua/mac) vs young, but Young has gotten much better.

But the main point is while we have traded more pass rush & sacks its also allowed Bryce more shots and he made people pay!.But yes Bryce need to step back in the pocket more.





SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

LSU
No Blitz - 20 dropbacks, 6 pressures, 1 sack (35%)
Blitz - 24 dropbacks, 13 pressures, 2 sacks (63%)

Auburn
No Blitz - 45 dropbacks, 14 pressures, 4 sacks (40%)
Blitz - 16 dropbacks, 6 pressures, 3 sacks (56%)

Texas A&M
No Blitz - 40 dropbacks, 13 pressures, 1 sack (35%)
Blitz - 16 dropbacks, 6 pressures, 3 sacks (56%)


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

quote:

AjA77




Awesome stuff


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DT55Forever1
Member since Jan 2018
1607 posts

Another verification of the issue being coaching:

BOB
Marrone

The part about the QB working working within the pocket has always been an issue with the RPO. To be fair to Bryce, when the jackass coach calls for the left guard to pull to block the right defensive end pressure while the right guard and tackle block down which allows both the right DE and middle rush to get to Bryce, what pocket is he supposed to work within?

I've seen this blocking call made several times this season. Some of the line schemes we've used have been absolutely insane.


Bham Bammer
Alabama Fan
Member since Nov 2014
11921 posts

Interesting. It felt like AU blitzed way more than that. Then again, we weren't running very many plays until the 4th quarter, so maybe they were just blitzing a lot early.


SummerOfGeorge
Alabama Fan
Brookhaven, GA
Member since Jul 2013
90359 posts

quote:

Interesting. It felt like AU blitzed way more than that. Then again, we weren't running very many plays until the 4th quarter, so maybe they were just blitzing a lot early.



Yea - and a lot of those pressures came from them lining up their DE/OLB with his hand in the dirt really wide and just beating George (and sometimes Randolph too) off the corner.

Once Seth came in at center and Owens came in at RT they really didn't have many jailbreak sack plays. They still got pressure, but it was much more controlled and not everywhere all at once immediately.


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