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I really miss the pro-style offensive system.

Posted on 11/9/17 at 3:15 am
Posted by Commander Data
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Dec 2016
7289 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 3:15 am
Kirby is using Saban's former philosophy and is on his way to picking up where Saban left off. These bigtime recruits that used to pick us are now picking Georgia making it even tougher to swallow.

I think Saban made a bad decision getting away from what got him there. Johnny Manziel, Chad Kelly and Watson messed up his psyche and helped usher in a change from pro style to spread with the dual threat guy. Our only hope is that Tua may be in the same hemisphere as the three guys I mentioned.

Nick Saban hated the new age offense and was vocal about rules that make it possible to run it. He said frick it, if you can't beat em join em.

Making it worse is that he still won't commit to the hurry up spread 100 % instead he is running a hybrid offense that would be much better if he was all in on the pro style or the spread. We should try to be really good at one of them instead of just decent at both. He tries to run a spread with a pro style OL. We have big maulers on the line instead of smaller, quicker guys.

This post is all just me hating what offense has become and frustration that Saban gave in and joined in the madness. 99% of quarterback recruits every year are not like Lamar Jackson. Most are just really good athletes playing quarterback.

He is the goat and I am a spoiled fan that likes to bitch but I wish we still ran our old offense.
This post was edited on 11/11/17 at 1:20 am
Posted by IAmReality
Member since Oct 2012
12229 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 3:23 am to
I just wish we had more identity on offense. Even under Kiffin I struggled to see what if anything our core philosophy was.

I think this lack of philosophy is what leads to the chronic inconsistency we've had on offense the past few years.

Since Kiffin to present our offense seems to be feast or faminine. We score on a lot more big plays and can put up points in bunches... or just completely disappear and go three and out for an entire half.

Ball control, run centric offenses seem to be far more consistent and steady. You rarely put up 50+ points and 500 yards, however you also rarely go an entire quarter or half without getting a first down. We do both of those things regularly now.

Regardless, you can't argue with the W/L record or the offensive stats so you just gotta trust the coaches.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 3:25 am
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 7:14 am to
Why Alabama's offense is like a restaurant menu
quote:

To get a sense of what Alabama's offense could look like in the future, it's essential to understand what happened in the past.

Start in August. That's when Brian Daboll met with the media and offered a revealing comment.

"We have a variety of different plays, both runs and passes, and we're implementing new plays every day," the Crimson Tide's first-year offensive coordinator said then. "Throwing a lot at these guys."

Yet as tight end Hale Hentges would soon discover, not everything Alabama practiced then would be used immediately.

As the season has progressed, Hentges has watched the offense evolve. Things Alabama worked on and installed in the summer have only begun to resurface in November.

"Maybe we're not going to do it in Week 1 or 2, but [Daboll is] like, 'We ran this play. We ran it a lot in camp,'" Hentges said. "So if we play something with an eight-man front and the middle's open, we can go back to this.'"

This is the beauty of the concept-driven Erhardt-Perkins system that Daboll learned as an assistant during multiple stints with the New England Patriots. 

On a week to week basis, Daboll can expand and contract the playbook and design a game plan tailored to beat a given opponent.


Alabama coach Nick Saban likened Daboll's call sheet to a menu -- and if Daboll is to be believed, then it resembles the encyclopedic one seen at The Cheesecake Factory.

"You choose what you want to do and each week based on what the other team does, based on the coverages that they play," he said. "You don't just draw up new stuff every week...We can expand that or contract it or use the things that we think are best based on what the other team plays. I think that's what we've tried to do all year long and that's what gives the players the best chance to execute."

Last Saturday, in a 24-10 LSU victory, Alabama ran a steady diet of plays featuring receivers running crossing routes with some play-action maneuvers. This made sense, considering the Tigers aimed to stop the Tide with a loaded box and man coverage.

On one occasion, Alabama even sent Hentges out on a wheel route -- failing to complete the pass but using the right kind of concept to beat the defense LSU was playing in that situation.

While Jalen Hurts only connected on 46 percent of his pass attempts last weekend, the team's radio analyst Phil Savage termed the Alabama quarterback's performance in that game as "night and day" compared to his outing against the Tigers, when the Tide won 10-0.

Middle of the field now open for business at Alabama

"LSU plays a lot of man and it is a bit easier to pick a matchup and go with it rather than read out across a zone coverage," Savage explained. "But I thought that in terms of the mistakes, the importance of the game and the talent on the other side of the field, especially in terms of the cornerbacks that LSU has, I thought they played really well. And I think [Hurts] has grown a lot as a passer."

Daboll has helped in that maturation -- using personnel and a variety of formations to create mismatches while adding layers to an offense that is clearly advancing with each passing week. He has also given Hurts the license to throw between the numbers -- an area of the field that appeared off limits to the passing game in 2016. 

"I think we've added some new wrinkles," Hentges said. "Especially as we've played different opponents, our playbook's going to expand a little bit, and every time we play a new defense, it seems like we have a new scheme or concept. Our offensive coaches are really good at saying, 'Hey, this is going to work against this. Let's try putting this in.' And we have a lot of great players that they can use to make that work. So it's definitely adapted." 

Piggybacking on the comparison Saban made, Hentges equated the Tide's roster to a buffet.

"Daboll can just come up and be like, 'I'll take some [DeVonta Smith] this week and I'll take some of Calvin (Ridley)," Hentges said, referring to two of his teammates. "No, I don't really want that. Some of that.'"

The idea is to have options.

And the goal is to maximize the personnel available.

The vision that Daboll described in August is starting to crystallize.

"We have a ton of different plays that we can run offensively," Daboll said back in the summer.

Nine games into the season, it's safe to say not all have them have been executed. As Hentges explained, the evolution continues. So, it's best to stay tuned to see what happens next.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 9:41 am
Posted by Huddie Leadbetter
Member since May 2016
3822 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 7:22 am to
quote:

I think Saban made a bad decision getting away from what got him there. Johnny Manziel, Chad Kelly and Watson messed up his psyche and helped usher in a change from pro style to spread with the dual threat guy. Our only hope is that Tua may be in the same hemisphere as the three guys I mentioned.


yep. I've said this before about Watson influencing Saban so much. You make a good point about Kelly and Manziel.

I think Tagovailoa can be a better all around qb than any of them. I just hope it's at Alabama.

Posted by CapstoneGrad06
Little Rock
Member since Nov 2008
72086 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 7:49 am to
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 8:07 am to
Waxing poetic about our offenses in 2008, 2009 & 2011 is kind of like old people waxing poetic about the 1950s.


2008 Offense
25th S&P+
5.52 YPP (51st Nationally)
30.1 PPG (35th Nationally)
4.55 Yards Per Rush (38th Nationally)
124.12 QB Rating (65th Nationally)
- broke 400 yards vs P5 teams 3 times (Clemson, Arkansas, Auburn). Held under 6.0 YPP
- 172 yards and 3.51 YPP vs Tulane (20 pts)
- 326 yards and 5.53 YPP vs Ole Miss (24 pts)
- 366 yards and 5.46 YPP vs Tennessee (29 pts)
- 208 yards and 3.30 YPP vs Utah (17 pts)


2009 Offense
14th S&P+
5.96 YPP (32nd Nationally)
32.1 PPG (21st Nationally)
5.01 Yards Per Rush (11th Nationally)
138.46 QB Rating (34th Nationally)
- 352 yards @ Kentucky (5.18 YPP) (38 pts)
- 354 yards @ Ole Miss (4.66 YPP) (22 pts)
- 356 yards vs South Carolina (6.14 YPP) (20 pts)
- 256 yards vs Tennessee (4.34 YPP) (12 pts)
- 291 yards @ Auburn (4.34 YPP) (26 pts)
- 263 yards vs Texas (4.17 YPP) (37 pts)


2011 Offense
20th S&P+
6.46 YPP (12th Nationally)
34.8 PPG (20th Nationally)
5.49 Yards Per Rush (7th Nationally)
142.51 QB Rating (34th Nationally)
- 359 yards @ Penn State (4.99 YPP) (27 pts)
- 366 yards @ Florida (5.38 YPP) (31 offensive pts)
- 419 yards vs Vanderbilt (5.51 YPP) (34 pts)
- 295 yards vs LSU (4.92 YPP) (6 pts)
- 386 yards @ Miss State (5.68 YPP) (24 pts)
- 384 yards vs LSU (5.57 YPP) (21 pts)


2017 Offense
26th S&P+
6.82 YPP (11th Nationally)
40.9 PPG (8th Nationally)
6.07 Yards Per Rush (5th Nationally)
152.05 QB Rating (20th Nationally)
- 269 yards vs FSU (4.48 YPP) (24 pts)
- 355 yards vs Texas A&M (5.38 YPP) (27 pts)
- 299 yards vs LSU (4.98 YPP) (24 pts)


Georgia is 19th overall in S&P+ offense. Georgia, against the 3 best defenses they have played (Notre Dame, Miss State, South Carolina) is averaging :
- 25 PPG
- 5.81 YPP
- 4.56 Yards Per Rush

quote:


Success Rate

A common Football Outsiders tool used to measure efficiency by determining whether every play of a given game was successful or not. The terms of success in college football: 50 percent of necessary yardage on first down, 70 percent on second down, and 100 percent on third and fourth down.


2017 Georgia Rushing Success Rate : 45.7% (39th)
2017 Alabama Rushing Success Rate : 47.4% (26th)


So, I guess my point is.................I don't agree. We had some terrible offensive performances in 2008 and 2009 that were only bailed out by incredible defensive games and the fact that a lot of the SEC's offenses were dogshite (2008 Tulane, 2009 Ole Miss, 2009 South Carolina, 2009 Tennessee, 2009 Texas). Hell, in 2009 we went an entire month where our QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. We basically made Mark Ingram the QB of a middle school offense the entire 4th quarter of the South Carolina game to try and hang on in 2009.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 8:32 am
Posted by CapstoneGrad06
Little Rock
Member since Nov 2008
72086 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 8:09 am to
quote:

So, I guess my point is.................I don't agree.


It is like people have completely forgotten how dysfunctional those offenses could be at times. When it broke down, there wasn't another option to save the offense.
Posted by Bham Bammer
Member since Nov 2014
14469 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 8:17 am to
Let's wait for UGA to win something before we crown them. I don't count a severely-weakened division.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 8:27 am to
quote:

Ball control, run centric offenses seem to be far more consistent and steady.


Efficiency Ratings
Alabama : 15th
Georgia : 32nd

quote:

however you also rarely go an entire quarter or half without getting a first down. We do both of those things regularly now.


When, outside of the LSU 4th quarter, have we gone an entire quarter or half without getting first downs this season?

Not FSU
Not Texas A&M
Not LSU for the first 3 quarters

Those things applied to the Kiffin era. They have not applied this year. Even in games where the offense sputtered.

Alabama Offensive Efficiency Ratings
2015 - 42nd
2016 - 27th
2017 - 15th
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 8:29 am
Posted by Huddie Leadbetter
Member since May 2016
3822 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 8:41 am to
Stats don't always tell the real story and I notice, anyway, that you don't include passing yards per game, and certainly not passing yards downfield. Morevoer, those are season stats. It's kind of pointless to revel in the stats vs Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and a bad Tennessee. Those aren't the teams we will compete with for SEC and national titles.

Those years, we had a balanced offense. Now we don't. Defenses know that we don't have a very good passing offense, and especially downfield, so they concentrate on the running game, and pressure Hurts, and it impacts our offensive production against good defenses.

We do some things well, but a good and balanced offense isn't one of them.

Edit: Well, not so much 08 and 09, but the McCarron, Sims, and Coker teams were balanced. We had a respectable and efficient passing offense.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 8:51 am
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15710 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 8:48 am to
quote:

When, outside of the LSU 4th quarter, have we gone an entire quarter or half without getting first downs this season?


George, you can remove your "4th quarter against LSU" disclaimer. That period started with Bama on their own 49 yard line. Three plays later, they had a 1st and 10 at the LSU 25.

To further the consistency point, forget first downs. Thus far this season, Alabama has played 36 quarters of football. They have scored points in every singe one of them.
Posted by Funky Tide 8
Tittleman's Crest
Member since Feb 2009
52573 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:03 am to
We just scored the same amount of points as UGA, against a better defense. Furthermore, their division is absolute trash.



quote:

spoiled
quote:

bitch
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 9:21 am
Posted by labamafan
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2007
24262 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:20 am to
When Kirby wins 4 NC in 7 yrs get back to us.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Those years, we had a balanced offense.


LOL are you trolling? We went an entire month in 2009 where our passing game was worse than anything Jalen Hurts has put together. We won the national title game with our QB going 6/11 for 58 yards.

McElroy 3 game stretch in 2009
@ Ole Miss : 15/34 (44%), 147 yds, 4.3 YPA, 0 TD/0INT
vs South Carolina : 10/20 (50%), 92 yards, 4.6 YPA, 0 TD/2 INT
Vs Tennessee : 18/29 (62%), 4.1 YPA, 120 yards, 0 TD/0 INT

3 games
43/83 (52%)
120 YPG
4.3 YPA
0 TD/2 INT

quote:

It's kind of pointless to revel in the stats vs Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and a bad Tennessee. Those aren't the teams we will compete with for SEC and national titles.


Did you see the list of games in 2008, 2009 and 2011? We didn't light good defenses on fire outside of Florida 2008. We struggled more than we have this year against both good and bad defenses.

2012? Yes, that offense was amazing. Best offense of the Saban era, even with Nuss. Great QB, best OL we've had in 25 years, 2 very good college RBs, a NFL fullback and a Top 10 pick at WR. That was a once in a decade combination of talent and experience at all 3 major position groups.

quote:

Edit: Well, not so much 08 and 09, but the McCarron, Sims, and Coker teams were balanced. We had a respectable and efficient passing offense.



The Coker team wasn't balanced until the last 1/3 of the season. It was also wildly inefficient. We put it all together just in the nick of time for the playoff run. The Playoff version of our offense that year was beautiful. The rest of the season version was not.
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 9:39 am
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
38353 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:33 am to
Tua is going to be a Deshaun Watson type of player and I’d bet my next paycheck on it. His accuracy and release are incredible, and he’s already shown he’s a gifted runner despite lacking 4.5 speed

Dilfer is known for hyperbole and propping a prospect up every year, but I’ve never heard him make a comparison similar to the one he made for Tua when he said something along the lines of “this kid has an Aaron Rodgers release and I’m not even kidding”
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 9:35 am
Posted by Huddie Leadbetter
Member since May 2016
3822 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:38 am to
quote:

The Coker team wasn't balanced until the last 1/3 of the season. It was also wildly inefficient. We put it all together just in the nick of time for the playoff run. The Playoff version of our offense that year was beautiful. The rest of the season version was not.


But your statistics above are season stats. For Coker's season, according to ncaa.org, we averaged

Total Offense 427.1
Rushing Offense 199.9
Passing Offense 227.1
Team Passing Efficiency 143.45
Scoring Offense 35.1

And that passing offense was actually proficient downfield. And yes, it came around really good by the end of the year, as opposed to last year. We know the end results of those 2 years.

Posted by labamafan
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2007
24262 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:44 am to
Fact is outside of AJ and even him until 1.9.12, all of our QB "sucked" until Bama wins a Nc and then fans get amnesia and suddenly they were great QB. Coker was not a very good QB. He was tough and played hard but until he hit OJ on several busted coverages everyone thought he was holding us back. AJ until the coaches let him throw it over TM to Norwood in the national title game was holding us back. It's the same story every year until Bama wins the NT. If Jalen get a NT this year he will suddenly be the greatest QB Bama has ever had. Never mind the fact he beat LSU this year not with his legs but made the clutch passes to win the game.
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15710 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:47 am to
Thanks George, I was going to make a post showing how those 2009 and 2011 teams had a much worse YPA passing and relied on the run for yardage at almost the exact same rate as today, but then I just decided it wasn't worth it. No matter how many undeniable facts you post, they're going to rely on what they feel and remember.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:48 am to
The 2015 offense also turned the ball over a lot and struggled on the ground consistently.

So, we hit big plays and then gave teams the ball at our 30 yard line. It was insanely inefficient. Very explosive, both ways good and bad, but incredibly inefficient.......until Jake figured things out and stopped giving the ball away.

Also, our downfield numbers were better......but they weren't light years better.

Passes of 25+ per game
2008 : 1.5
2009 : 1.4
2010 : 2.3
2011 : 1.5
2012 : 2.6
2013 : 2.2
2014 : 2.4
2015 : 2.1
2016 : 2.4
2017 : 1.8


The 2017 team is basically a more efficient version of the teams this thread wishes we would be. The irony is, the offense you liked was the opposite of that. Explosive but prone to droughts.

This is the 2nd most explosive running team, in terms of chunk plays of 10+ yards, we've had under Saban, trailing only the GOAT 2012.

Run Plays Per Game of 10+
1. 2012 (11.4)
2. 2017 (9.3)
3. 2016 (7.7)
4. 2013 (6.8)
5. 2009 (6.6)
This post was edited on 11/9/17 at 9:54 am
Posted by TidalSurge1
Ft Walton Beach
Member since Sep 2016
36467 posts
Posted on 11/9/17 at 9:49 am to
quote:

to dominate their division

How many teams nation-wide could dominate the rest of that division? 10, 15, 20, 25?
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