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Hypothetically speaking, pick your poison Tide fans.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:39 pm
Ok, we have seen the best defense in America multiple times with Saban at the helm with 2011 and 2016 being headliners. We saw last year an offensive juggernaut and this year looks equal to that or better. Now I am not speculating on this year when I say this but assume you could have an all-world offense like last year but you could only be mediocre on defense. Now assume you could be all-world on defense like 2016 but could only be mediocre on offense. Which team would you prefer? I think you could potentially win it all with either team but I would choose the all-world defense.
Now I really am just bored and got to thinking about our last two loses to Clemson and which team I think was better and which team I liked the most which led me to this stupid poll type post. Just curious what you guys would choose. Something else here is I think 2016 Bama would beat 2018 Bama especially if Bo was healthy.
Now I really am just bored and got to thinking about our last two loses to Clemson and which team I think was better and which team I liked the most which led me to this stupid poll type post. Just curious what you guys would choose. Something else here is I think 2016 Bama would beat 2018 Bama especially if Bo was healthy.
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Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:48 pm to Commander Data
I’ll take a great defense and mediocre offense. Btw I don’t think those offenses were mediocre either. They were just a different style. Fact is when Bama has a great defense and a great ball control offense that controls field position and time of possession those teams are hard to beat. All I’ve seen so far with this juggernaut of an offense is when we face great defense they slow the progression enough to beat Bama or have a great shot at it. I miss the days of Bama having a 14pt lead in the 4th qtr and I didn’t care because there was nothing the other team could do about it. The last time the OL took a game over was against LSU when we ran every play to end the fourth qtr on an 8 minute drive. That was several years ago. We can’t do that now at all.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:49 pm to Commander Data
Legend has it that elite defense travels, so put me down for the latter.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 2:51 pm to Commander Data
Having an elite offense would be way more fun.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 3:00 pm to pvilleguru
is there any such thing as an "elite" defense against todays ffenses, hmm...
Posted on 9/18/19 at 3:01 pm to Commander Data
In today’s game?
Give me an elite offense at Alabama.
Alabama isn’t facing 10 teams a year that are dumb enough to run up the middle 30 times against their immovable front like they were ~8 years ago.
Look at the scores of these playoff games.
Give me an elite offense at Alabama.
Alabama isn’t facing 10 teams a year that are dumb enough to run up the middle 30 times against their immovable front like they were ~8 years ago.
Look at the scores of these playoff games.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 3:44 pm to Commander Data
It crushes me to see our D gashed. It absolutely can take the wind out of your sails to allow continuous first downs - know what I mean?
I’ll take the dominant D and an AJ McCarron-type any day of the week.
I’ll take the dominant D and an AJ McCarron-type any day of the week.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 3:50 pm to Commander Data
Even with the issues we've seen so far this year, I'm pretty sure we still have a top10 defense.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 3:53 pm to Bham4Tide
quote:
It crushes me to see our D gashed. It absolutely can take the wind out of your sails to allow continuous first downs - know what I mean?
That goes both ways though. You just marched down the field 5 yards at a time but had to kick a FG because of a penalty or a dropped pass on 3rd down. You're feeling good about yourselves. The crowd is into it. Then Tua and Friends come out and absolutely demolish your defense on a 7 play, 75 yard TD drive that looked like a 7 on 7 drill between pros and middle schoolers.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 3:57 pm to 3down10
quote:
Even with the issues we've seen so far this year, I'm pretty sure we still have a top10 defense.
I think people are having a difficult time accepting that what qualifies as good defense today is something that would have been seen as average just 10 years ago. The rules, and how they are enforced, favor the offense. There's no getting around it.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 9/18/19 at 4:45 pm to Bham4Tide
quote:Dude
I’ll take the dominant D and an AJ McCarron-type any day of the week.
AJ McCarron was awesome.
Of course we’d all take an elite defense and his offenses.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 5:12 pm to ReauxlTide222
AJ was fantastic.
I think I answered the question poorly. I was more comparing his style (more than his play).
I think I answered the question poorly. I was more comparing his style (more than his play).
Posted on 9/18/19 at 5:37 pm to Bham4Tide
I've enjoyed watching our opportunistic defenses from the past. Stuffing the run, qb sacks, pick 6's, intimadation, swagger etc...
2019 with the injuries already on defense, 3-4 true freshman starting, offense is definitely what I look forward to watching. Our passing game is so explosive their capable of scoring on any play, no matter the yard line.
2019 with the injuries already on defense, 3-4 true freshman starting, offense is definitely what I look forward to watching. Our passing game is so explosive their capable of scoring on any play, no matter the yard line.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 6:11 pm to Bham4Tide
quote:
It absolutely can take the wind out of your sails to allow continuous first downs - know what I mean?
South Carolina moved the ball well between the 20s but our D stiffened when it mattered. They allowed only one touchdown all game long when the game was competitive and that pass should have been intercepted. It was 47-16 when South Carolina scored on what was one of the last plays of the game.
ETA: The days of dominant defenses might be over. Our 2015 and 2016 defenses even allowed teams to score 40+ and those were considered elite defensive squads. Like it or not, the days of lining up and trying to impose your will with HB dive plays are pretty much over. LSU has even shifted to the spread and they were the last hold out in the conference.
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 6:14 pm
Posted on 9/19/19 at 8:21 am to RollTide1987
What's kinda humorous is to listen to LSU fans right now. Oh, they love their offense, but can't figure out what is happening to their run game and they don't even recognize their defense. Some are wondering is Delpit is hurt.
Welcome to the wacky world of the HUNH, RPO, 10 personnel world of spread football. (New Orlean's style, so LSU says)
I didn't have the heart to tell him this is probably as good as it's gonna get. Soon, the purple masses will be wondering if Dave Aranda is still in his right defensive mind, or worth the 2 plus million they are paying him.
The offense we choose is the defense we inherit to a great extent.
AJ McCarron ran an offense that worked with the strategy of the defense. Practicing against that type of offense developed good tackling habits and let them play physical.
If anyone is still nostalgic for that type of bully ball you have to go to Athens these days. It's making a legend out of Jake Fromm and he has thrown for around 2500 yard in his first 2 seasons as a starter. They used to call our QBs game managers for those kinds of passing stats. Fromm has been asked to throw the ball at least 30 times in a game only 4 times at Georgia. What is his record? 0-4.
There's no right or wrong here, it's just to say that whatever offense we choose, the defense will reflect that decision intimately. Coach Bryant was asked once why he didn't open up the offense more, he said because it creates problems with the defense when they go against that all week. The only reason coach Bryant and many others believe that we play like we practice is because that's the muscle memory we're developing with our players. If you were Surtain and you spent the majority of time chasing Jeudy up and down the field in scrimmages, I don't think he's going to look like Marlon Humphrey at the LOS on gameday. Probably why our tackling these days could use some serious attention.
Like the OP said, "Pick your Poison."
Welcome to the wacky world of the HUNH, RPO, 10 personnel world of spread football. (New Orlean's style, so LSU says)
I didn't have the heart to tell him this is probably as good as it's gonna get. Soon, the purple masses will be wondering if Dave Aranda is still in his right defensive mind, or worth the 2 plus million they are paying him.
The offense we choose is the defense we inherit to a great extent.
AJ McCarron ran an offense that worked with the strategy of the defense. Practicing against that type of offense developed good tackling habits and let them play physical.
If anyone is still nostalgic for that type of bully ball you have to go to Athens these days. It's making a legend out of Jake Fromm and he has thrown for around 2500 yard in his first 2 seasons as a starter. They used to call our QBs game managers for those kinds of passing stats. Fromm has been asked to throw the ball at least 30 times in a game only 4 times at Georgia. What is his record? 0-4.
There's no right or wrong here, it's just to say that whatever offense we choose, the defense will reflect that decision intimately. Coach Bryant was asked once why he didn't open up the offense more, he said because it creates problems with the defense when they go against that all week. The only reason coach Bryant and many others believe that we play like we practice is because that's the muscle memory we're developing with our players. If you were Surtain and you spent the majority of time chasing Jeudy up and down the field in scrimmages, I don't think he's going to look like Marlon Humphrey at the LOS on gameday. Probably why our tackling these days could use some serious attention.
Like the OP said, "Pick your Poison."
This post was edited on 9/19/19 at 8:24 am
Posted on 9/19/19 at 9:24 am to Commander Data
I think great defense is more reliable on week to week basis, but great defense today (by the numbers) appears to be nothing like ten years ago.
Posted on 9/19/19 at 10:10 am to Globetrotter747
quote:
I think great defense is more reliable on week to week basis, but great defense today (by the numbers) appears to be nothing like ten years ago.
The last 10 years is about right. In 2008 college football went to the continuous running 40-second clock and all offensive hell broke out. Here comes the HUNH RPO spread and reinvented defensive confusion, substitution patterns, and fatigue, regardless of how many all-Americans start for you on defense.
Since 2008, the number of teams joining the ranks is overwhelming. The only 3 teams I can think of that still stay pretty much pro-set is Vandy, Georgia, and Tennessee in the SEC. It's enough to make a great defense's eyes bleed.
Posted on 9/19/19 at 10:12 am to labamafan
I think you hit the nail with this ...
Those teams had incredible OLines, and I don't think bama has had one up to that level in a while. 2016, 2nd half of the year we had a great Oline, Sabans 08 - 12 / 13 run was up there as well.
I'll take the incredible D with a great Oline any day (still had a lot of playmakers back then too). I think that can still work with current offenses and that it doesn't have to be either or - its just very hard to get a team put together that strong on both sides of the ball. That said, in today's game any defense is capable of getting torched by these offenses / skill position players if a qb is hot.
quote:
The last time the OL took a game over was against LSU when we ran every play to end the fourth qtr on an 8 minute drive.
Those teams had incredible OLines, and I don't think bama has had one up to that level in a while. 2016, 2nd half of the year we had a great Oline, Sabans 08 - 12 / 13 run was up there as well.
I'll take the incredible D with a great Oline any day (still had a lot of playmakers back then too). I think that can still work with current offenses and that it doesn't have to be either or - its just very hard to get a team put together that strong on both sides of the ball. That said, in today's game any defense is capable of getting torched by these offenses / skill position players if a qb is hot.
This post was edited on 9/19/19 at 10:15 am
Posted on 9/19/19 at 10:59 am to Commander Data
With the way the rules are favoring the offense nowadays, I think the days of dominant defenses are on the wane. When traditionally top defenses like LSU and Alabama are giving up huge passing numbers and lots of points, you know the worm has turned. Don't see this changing unless they make some changes to the rules (OL can only go 1-yard downfield on a pass play and relaxing defensive substitution rules are a couple that come to mind). But the NCAA (and many fans for that matter) like to see a lot of points scored so don't see that happening...
The '11 & '16 defenses were great but even they had their issues. The 2011 D allowed 300+ rushing yards to an FCS school and only faced one top 30 team in total offense (Arky at 29); the next highest ranked offense they faced was #84. The 2016 D got gashed by two spread teams, Ole Miss and Clemson (gave up 400+ yards passing/500+ yards total offense to both); also gave up another 400 yard passing game to Arkansas that year as well...
If I were picking a defense in Saban's era to emulate, it'd be 2009. Rolando McClain was like a coach on the field; he made most calls without looking to the coaches. Used to love when they were playing spread teams and the QB would look at the formation and then look to the sideline for the play; most times McClain would then change the defensive call. Plus that D was very balanced, great against the run, great against the pass...held QBs to less than 50% completions and opponent's 3rd down conversions were less than 30%.
quote:
Ok, we have seen the best defense in America multiple times with Saban at the helm with 2011 and 2016 being headliners.
The '11 & '16 defenses were great but even they had their issues. The 2011 D allowed 300+ rushing yards to an FCS school and only faced one top 30 team in total offense (Arky at 29); the next highest ranked offense they faced was #84. The 2016 D got gashed by two spread teams, Ole Miss and Clemson (gave up 400+ yards passing/500+ yards total offense to both); also gave up another 400 yard passing game to Arkansas that year as well...
If I were picking a defense in Saban's era to emulate, it'd be 2009. Rolando McClain was like a coach on the field; he made most calls without looking to the coaches. Used to love when they were playing spread teams and the QB would look at the formation and then look to the sideline for the play; most times McClain would then change the defensive call. Plus that D was very balanced, great against the run, great against the pass...held QBs to less than 50% completions and opponent's 3rd down conversions were less than 30%.
Posted on 9/19/19 at 11:15 am to OldPete
Defenese,Defense,Defense.
Looking at the 5 Natties Saban has at Bama, we have enjoyed a stellar defense with all of them.
Look back to the decade of dominance Spurrier enjoyed at Florida in the 90's. He won half the SEC titles of that decade and was in the national title hunt every year. He won only 1 National Championship. It wasn't until he hired Bob Stoops to come in and give him an amazing defense that he did win it all.
I think you can win a natty with a light em' up offense and formidable defense, but law of averages is in your favor with the Stellar D and mediocre O.
Looking at the 5 Natties Saban has at Bama, we have enjoyed a stellar defense with all of them.
Look back to the decade of dominance Spurrier enjoyed at Florida in the 90's. He won half the SEC titles of that decade and was in the national title hunt every year. He won only 1 National Championship. It wasn't until he hired Bob Stoops to come in and give him an amazing defense that he did win it all.
I think you can win a natty with a light em' up offense and formidable defense, but law of averages is in your favor with the Stellar D and mediocre O.
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