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Defensive play calling and disguising formations
Posted on 8/23/19 at 8:42 am
Posted on 8/23/19 at 8:42 am
Couple of questions: Since it has been noted that Golding took over play calling later in the year (anyone know when), do we expect the calls to be better because Moses and Golding are on the same page more so than Golding and Mack?
Also, has our defense been disguising formations to help Tua work on post snap recognition?
Also, has our defense been disguising formations to help Tua work on post snap recognition?
Posted on 8/23/19 at 9:06 am to BamaReb
Not sure exactly when Golding took over the calls. As for the other, I'd imagine Sark has been working more with Tua on post snap recognition/reading disguised defenses...
I think the calls will be better because I think, barring more injuries, the defense will be better this year. This could be one of the best secondaries we've ever fielded and, right now, we've got a lot of depth there. Should be easier to stunt and blitz if the secondary holds up better this year. Also, there's no ambiguity about who's calling the defense this year...
I think the calls will be better because I think, barring more injuries, the defense will be better this year. This could be one of the best secondaries we've ever fielded and, right now, we've got a lot of depth there. Should be easier to stunt and blitz if the secondary holds up better this year. Also, there's no ambiguity about who's calling the defense this year...
Posted on 8/23/19 at 9:52 am to OldPete
Rumor is in September. I have doubts about Golding as DC if I’m honest. The defense was woefully ill prepared for teams they couldn’t put talent. I’m sure he’s fine at game planning against the known but we seem to struggle if our initial game plan was bad. Bama just couldn’t seem to adjust on the fly.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 10:26 am to labamafan
quote:
Rumor is in September. I have doubts about Golding as DC if I’m honest.
If he started in September then why the frick is he here this year is what I want to know.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 11:02 am to 3down10
quote:
If he started in September then why the frick is he here this year is what I want to know.
You'll not find answers here in this place my son.
More likely you instincts are correct and the September "rumor" is wrong. Just a bit of deductive logic which will take you much further than our bevy of insiders ever will.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 1:05 pm to BamaReb
quote:
do we expect the calls to be better because Moses and Golding are on the same page more so than Golding and Mack?
Our entire defensive coaching staff was just overhauled, and looks to be a MUCH better coaching staff, including 2 former DCs as position coaches. I expect our defense as a whole to be much improved for the above reason, as well as the fact that we didn't lose our entire starting Nickel package from the year before and the fact that our depth along the front will be improved.
quote:
Also, has our defense been disguising formations to help Tua work on post snap recognition?
I'm sure our coaching staff has been doing lots of things to help improve each and every player, including some things you or I could think of and a thousand things we'd never come up with.
Specifically regarding disguising formations pre-snap, that has been happening for decades and is a normal part of defensive football. However, disguising coverages for a few beats into a QB's post-snap read is the newest weapon in a DCs arsenal to combat the RPO. You will see half the teams in CFB doing it this year. I have heard multiple coaches and pundits discussing it this off-season, and it's all the rage. The saying for everyone is, "Put the game back in the QBs hands." (as opposed to the OCs).
Posted on 8/23/19 at 1:17 pm to labamafan
quote:
Rumor is in September.
(not speaking to you labamafan, only quoting your words as a jumping-off point)
I heard "mid'season", which would lead me to believe October-ish. However, I think this point is silly, because it's ridiculous for fans to blame our defensive woes solely on play-calling. We had replaced our entire Nickel secondary from the year before, had a piss-poor coaching staff overall as it relates to coaching the game and player development, got hit by the injury bug at OLB and corner, and also had a few defensive players focused on personal goals rather than team goals.
We had many issues last year, and still ended up with the 7th ranked defense in all of CFB in the S&P. Why some fans act like we were horrible and put all the blame on "play-calling", I'll never, ever know.
EDIT: I know why fans criticize "play-calling". It's the one thing a fan can criticize from their couches on gameday to pretend like they are smarter than the coaches.
This post was edited on 8/23/19 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 8/23/19 at 1:35 pm to 3down10
quote:
If he started in September then why the frick is he here this year is what I want to know.
We had a thread a few weeks ago about how Saban thought he was one of the most impressive guys he had ever interviewed. Something about getting peppered by Saban for 2 hrs to draw up quick adjust scenarios on the whiteboard. I imagine that is pretty intimidating and if Saban was as impressed as he's ever been then I'd guess that is one of the reasons why in the frick he is here this year.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 2:24 pm to prevatt33
quote:
disguising coverages for a few beats into a QB's post-snap read is the newest weapon in a DCs arsenal to combat the RPO.
You have any links or sources you could recommend? I love the “tactical” aspect of the game, and I’d like to learn more about this new strategy.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 2:37 pm to CrimsonTideMD
I'll try to locate some podcasts, but I can't promise anything. It's been quite some time ago and I can't remember which ones.
If you have a copy of the Aday game, Blackledge relays a convo he and Golding had about just this topic, although I doubt it'll satisfy your thirst for an Xs and Os deep-dive.
Here's a google search for "how to stop the RPO offense", and you might find some of these links informative: LINK
Also, anything on what Patterson and TCU are doing is fascinating : LINK
Another good read on defending the RPO: LINK
If you have a copy of the Aday game, Blackledge relays a convo he and Golding had about just this topic, although I doubt it'll satisfy your thirst for an Xs and Os deep-dive.
Here's a google search for "how to stop the RPO offense", and you might find some of these links informative: LINK
Also, anything on what Patterson and TCU are doing is fascinating : LINK
Another good read on defending the RPO: LINK
This post was edited on 8/23/19 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 8/23/19 at 3:10 pm to prevatt33
There's also 2 things to remember about the current state of CFB Xs and Os:
1) Offenses currently have the advantage, as the RPO game and the passing concepts inherent in the Air Raid have allowed Offensive Coordinators to basically scheme a person open each and every play. I saw something within the last several months where a Big12 OC was quoted as saying [paraphrased] "I can get a specific man open any time I want, and the QB doesn't have to make a read at all. I can do it all myself from the sidelines."
This has driven DCs all over the country to try and figure out how to make the QB have to make decisions again, and many believe the key is disguising coverages well into a QB's post-snap read, thereby preventing the OC from controlling the offense like a video game as well as forcing QBs into bad decisions by making where he wanted to go with the football look attractive but actually being a bad idea. This bring me to my next point...
2) Just as the college game has recently been significantly influencing Xs and Os at the Pro level, the reverse has continued to happen, and Sark has talked about it recently. The NFL game is all about matchups, literally getting my offensive guy against a specific guy on your defense who I want to exploit. A great example of this was when Clemson kept picking on Savion Smith, so much so that he laid down and quit in order to prevent his film from getting worse for NFL scouts.
Why is this important? Because it's just another thing a DC can use to try and mess up the offense, i.e. self-scouting and determining one's defensive weakness, and try try to turn it into an advantage.
And this again means disguising coverages well into a QBs post-snap read. If a defense can identify something that an offense is definitely trying to do, and then bait them into doing that very thing while setting a trap, it's DC gold. Why? Turnovers matter now much more than they did in the past.
Now, modern top-notch offenses are going to move the football and they are going to score points. It's just a fact. Nick Saban said it himself, that [paraphrasing] "No longer can a team win a championship by simply playing lock-down defense. It can't be done." And so turnovers have become the single biggest goals for a DC on any drive, as it results in ZERO points for the offense on that drive, and gives the ball back to their (hopefully) explosive offense.
Also, giving up some points in the process of getting turnovers is something many DCs will gladly do. Sure, giving up a TD yields 7 point to the other team, but a turnover leading to a TD is a 14 point swing in favor of one team, and 14 beats 7 every time.
Simply put, many DCs are beginning to do whatever it takes to bait the QB into throwing a pick, and making him make decisions again is the key to doing just that.
1) Offenses currently have the advantage, as the RPO game and the passing concepts inherent in the Air Raid have allowed Offensive Coordinators to basically scheme a person open each and every play. I saw something within the last several months where a Big12 OC was quoted as saying [paraphrased] "I can get a specific man open any time I want, and the QB doesn't have to make a read at all. I can do it all myself from the sidelines."
This has driven DCs all over the country to try and figure out how to make the QB have to make decisions again, and many believe the key is disguising coverages well into a QB's post-snap read, thereby preventing the OC from controlling the offense like a video game as well as forcing QBs into bad decisions by making where he wanted to go with the football look attractive but actually being a bad idea. This bring me to my next point...
2) Just as the college game has recently been significantly influencing Xs and Os at the Pro level, the reverse has continued to happen, and Sark has talked about it recently. The NFL game is all about matchups, literally getting my offensive guy against a specific guy on your defense who I want to exploit. A great example of this was when Clemson kept picking on Savion Smith, so much so that he laid down and quit in order to prevent his film from getting worse for NFL scouts.
Why is this important? Because it's just another thing a DC can use to try and mess up the offense, i.e. self-scouting and determining one's defensive weakness, and try try to turn it into an advantage.
And this again means disguising coverages well into a QBs post-snap read. If a defense can identify something that an offense is definitely trying to do, and then bait them into doing that very thing while setting a trap, it's DC gold. Why? Turnovers matter now much more than they did in the past.
Now, modern top-notch offenses are going to move the football and they are going to score points. It's just a fact. Nick Saban said it himself, that [paraphrasing] "No longer can a team win a championship by simply playing lock-down defense. It can't be done." And so turnovers have become the single biggest goals for a DC on any drive, as it results in ZERO points for the offense on that drive, and gives the ball back to their (hopefully) explosive offense.
Also, giving up some points in the process of getting turnovers is something many DCs will gladly do. Sure, giving up a TD yields 7 point to the other team, but a turnover leading to a TD is a 14 point swing in favor of one team, and 14 beats 7 every time.
Simply put, many DCs are beginning to do whatever it takes to bait the QB into throwing a pick, and making him make decisions again is the key to doing just that.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 6:02 pm to PCRammer
quote:
We had a thread a few weeks ago about how Saban thought he was one of the most impressive guys he had ever interviewed. Something about getting peppered by Saban for 2 hrs to draw up quick adjust scenarios on the whiteboard. I imagine that is pretty intimidating and if Saban was as impressed as he's ever been then I'd guess that is one of the reasons why in the frick he is here this year.
Well at the end of the day I trust Saban to make good decisions, but based on what happened last year, the rumors don't make much sense to me.
Especially since I don't really remember us struggling very much on defense until late in the year.
Arkansas had a little success, but we also put up 40 pts in the first half alone. A&M had some success, but again nothing to really write home about.
It was towards the end of the year that we started struggling more, no doubt to better offenses. Shut out LSU and Miss St. Then the point totals just kept creeping up. 21 to Auburn(not bad really), 28 to Georgia, 34 to Oklahoma and 37 to Clemson.
But when I hear Tosh called the games during the times we didn't have many problems and Golding supposedly took over during the times and was calling plays for the worse defensive games, something doesn't make sense to me. I thought it was because Tosh was in over his head at the end of the year, and that's why Saban sent him to the NFL to learn X's and O's.
Now I'm being told nah, it was Golding that was doing the bad play calling, and we are supposedly going to be better off for it.
Doesn't make sense to me. I hope the truth is that he was doing most of the game plans or something like that.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:43 pm to 3down10
quote:
Especially since I don't really remember us struggling very much on defense until late in the year.
The quality of the teams we played increased dramatically and the injuries slowly piled up. It's very logical.
The simple explanation is that our defensive coaching needed to improve in a number of ways, but it was determined by Saban that Golding was a keeper.
It's perfectly logical to understand that maybe, just maybe, Golding was the one who kept it from getting worse. And honestly, the play-calling wasn't much to blame - the player development and execution was the problem.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 9:19 pm to prevatt33
The rumors make perfect sense to me. After Tosh totally shite the bed, Golding was handed the reigns and told to fix it. He couldn't start from scratch in October so he did what he could with what he had, all the while working in place of someone that was technically his boss. We had a problem in the secondary last year and it showed. If you could throw the ball, you could score on Bama. And still, we only averaged giving up 18 points per game, not exactly a tremendous number. It certainly wasn't a great defense, but we're judging it against standard that's pretty damn high. If Saban is impressed by Golding, I'm impressed by Golding. I say lets see what he does this year before we get out the torches and pitchforks.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 9:41 pm to prevatt33
quote:
And honestly, the play-calling wasn't much to blame - the player development and execution was the problem.
What fricking game did you watch vs Clemson? Because the one I watched had terrible play calling. Getting 0 pressure on Lawrence all night, constantly sending only 3 rushers, etc.
If Pruitt was the DC, we win that game. He would have found a way to get pressure on him.
That was one of the worst called games I've seen in the Saban years. I thought it was Tosh, but now everyone is certain it was Golding and you're making excuses for it.
Furthermore, when did Tosh suddenly turn into a bad position coach?
This post was edited on 8/23/19 at 9:45 pm
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