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OT. Paris shootings and gun control
Posted on 11/15/15 at 7:41 am
Posted on 11/15/15 at 7:41 am
To all of the gun control advocates out there, take a lesson from Paris. Taking guns away isn't the answer.
No right to bear arms. Maximum of six years in prison for owning one illegally. Very large black weapons market for the bad guys. It's all been theory for the advocates now the proof is in the pudding.
LINK
No right to bear arms. Maximum of six years in prison for owning one illegally. Very large black weapons market for the bad guys. It's all been theory for the advocates now the proof is in the pudding.
LINK
4
Posted on 11/15/15 at 7:51 am to JRDawg77
We see "proof" in just about EVERY mass shooting....and the idiots are still idiots. You can't change the minds of those who think gun control is the answer. You're preaching to the choir here.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 7:52 am to JRDawg77
I'm pro firearms...I have 3, one for each floor in my house. BUT, concealed weapons in the hands of citizens won't stop ISIS whackjobs with kalashnikovs, grenades, and suicide vests. Our best defense against that is taking out their leaders and CIA/NSA-level surveillance.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 8:15 am to UGAalum08
Firearms in the hands of citizens can do a lot. Someone with a gun could have killed a terrorist or distracted one or caused them to blow themselves up early, leading to decreased body count.
The biggest positive in spite of hypotheticals is that it definitely would have given some people a fighting chance. Unarmed victims only recourse was to try to run, and even that wasn't a valid option for many people.
Being armed doesn't mean fewer lives would have been lost but it's hard to believe a situation where the terrorists have all the power as a better situation to be in.
The biggest positive in spite of hypotheticals is that it definitely would have given some people a fighting chance. Unarmed victims only recourse was to try to run, and even that wasn't a valid option for many people.
Being armed doesn't mean fewer lives would have been lost but it's hard to believe a situation where the terrorists have all the power as a better situation to be in.
This post was edited on 11/15/15 at 8:17 am
Posted on 11/15/15 at 8:32 am to FooManChoo
No doubt armed citizens absolutely would have helped, but it's not the solution for ISIS. It's the best defense against most of the mass shootings we're used to in the US...but what happened in Paris is very different. Not the best time to bring up the pro-gun argument imo.
The pro-gun argument primarily targets 1) prevention and 2) reaction. Armed citizens won't do anything to prevent ISIS attacks like this from happening and will do little to stop them once they are underway.
1 - The reason these guys went after Paris was primarily location/access. Not because the French don't carry. France is a hotbed for ISIS and some of them have already been confirmed as slipping in during the recent refugee crisis. Those same guys would not hesitate to do the same thing here. It's just harder to do it here because of location and because of our surveillance. Not because we have guns.
2 - As for armed citizens stopping/slowing the attack as it happens. I agree it would help some, but I wouldn't put much faith into it. These ISIS guys have weapons training. They're armed to the teeth (ARs, bullet proof vests, explosives). They go in prepared to die so they have no fear. Armed citizens do not have training (shooting at paper targets is not the type of training I'm talking about), armed citizens don't tote assault rifles, bullet proof vests, or grenades...and frankly they're not going to fight like an ASIS "allah akbar" nutjob would.
Stop ISIS through targeted strikes and surveillance. Stop school shootings, theater shootings, church shootings, etc. with armed citizens. Don't use what happened in Paris as an opportunity to campaign for guns.
The pro-gun argument primarily targets 1) prevention and 2) reaction. Armed citizens won't do anything to prevent ISIS attacks like this from happening and will do little to stop them once they are underway.
1 - The reason these guys went after Paris was primarily location/access. Not because the French don't carry. France is a hotbed for ISIS and some of them have already been confirmed as slipping in during the recent refugee crisis. Those same guys would not hesitate to do the same thing here. It's just harder to do it here because of location and because of our surveillance. Not because we have guns.
2 - As for armed citizens stopping/slowing the attack as it happens. I agree it would help some, but I wouldn't put much faith into it. These ISIS guys have weapons training. They're armed to the teeth (ARs, bullet proof vests, explosives). They go in prepared to die so they have no fear. Armed citizens do not have training (shooting at paper targets is not the type of training I'm talking about), armed citizens don't tote assault rifles, bullet proof vests, or grenades...and frankly they're not going to fight like an ASIS "allah akbar" nutjob would.
Stop ISIS through targeted strikes and surveillance. Stop school shootings, theater shootings, church shootings, etc. with armed citizens. Don't use what happened in Paris as an opportunity to campaign for guns.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 9:04 am to JRDawg77
If we are talking Guns in the hands of a bunch of people at sporting events, that's just dumb.
When the shite hits the fan all these "trained" people will just take more lives.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 9:26 am to UGAalum08
quote:
BUT, concealed weapons in the hands of citizens won't stop ISIS whackjobs with kalashnikovs, grenades, and suicide vests.
True but at least those helpless people in that theater in Paris could have gone down with a fight instead of being slaughter like sheep one at a time. And who knows, if they manage to take out just one terrorist, it might have saved dozens of lives.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 9:52 am to retooc
quote:
If we are talking Guns in the hands of a bunch of people at sporting events, that's just dumb.
When the shite hits the fan all these "trained" people will just take more lives.
Maybe, but alcohol plays a large role in a lot of sporting incident too. Treat it the same way it is everywhere else. If you're carrying, don't drink.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 5:53 pm to JRDawg77
Can we all agree that Islam is a religion of peace?
You see these violent episodes with Mormons, Presbyterians and Quakers all the time too.
You see these violent episodes with Mormons, Presbyterians and Quakers all the time too.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 6:43 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
There's really no way to stop a group of suicidal nut jobs from killing a bunch of people if that's their goal...especially with standard weaponry that's easy to move. Armed citizens might stop an event sooner...but probably not by much unless they're right there when it starts.
The only way to stop this in the short term is to control who comes and goes in your country and monitor all activities and associates of radicalized Muslim groups....and jump on them if anything is even remotely fishy. Of course these are things the leftist developed world is loathe to do so the situation will definitely get worse before people wake up.
The only way to stop this in the short term is to control who comes and goes in your country and monitor all activities and associates of radicalized Muslim groups....and jump on them if anything is even remotely fishy. Of course these are things the leftist developed world is loathe to do so the situation will definitely get worse before people wake up.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 7:03 pm to SquatchDawg
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II. Of course it was originally stated in Japanese, this is the English translation.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 7:11 pm to WhopperDawg
We're talking about stopping single events, not defending the entire country from ISIS takeover 
ISIS can't even take their own countries.
ISIS can't even take their own countries.
Posted on 11/15/15 at 9:13 pm to UGAalum08
Exactly...the only way you stop them is to keep them from getting in your country and organizing...as well as you can.
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