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re: OT - United Airlines situation
Posted on 4/14/17 at 12:01 pm to DawgsLife
Posted on 4/14/17 at 12:01 pm to DawgsLife
I booked the car when my scheduled flight was cancelled and the one 2 hours later (10 pm) was already delayed getting out of where it was coming from. It ended up being cancelled as well. I would've slept in the airport had I not bailed when I did.
The way I look at it I saved them the trouble of having to worry about getting me home.
The way I look at it I saved them the trouble of having to worry about getting me home.
1
Posted on 4/14/17 at 3:37 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
I booked the car when my scheduled flight was cancelled and the one 2 hours later (10 pm) was already delayed getting out of where it was coming from. It ended up being cancelled as well. I would've slept in the airport had I not bailed when I did.
The way I look at it I saved them the trouble of having to worry about getting me home.
Yeah. I would definitely tell them what happened, that you needed to get home, and ask them to reimburse you for the full amount. I am willing to bet you will get it...and maybe more. I realize (Guessing?) it was weather related? Even so, they would have put you up in a hotel room, given you a meal voucher and a taxi voucher to the hotel. They will be coming out cheaply to give you the money for the rental.
Let me know how it comes out....but yes, I would be willing to bet you get what you ask for.
Posted on 4/14/17 at 8:21 pm to DawgsLife
Interesting article on this from an associate Dean of the Cornell Law school. LINK
Looks like United might be pretty boned actually. I'll update with some snippets for context when I'm not on my phone. (if I remember)
Worth a read for anyone who's enjoyed digging into the nuance of this one... It does put United in a bit of a corner whereas I think most of us have thought they might be largely in the clear. I've seen several other writeups from other lawyers which all are fairly similar, but I felt like this one probably covered it best. It doesn't touch on any possible federal regulations around NRMR or NRPS passengers, but as we've said, they effed up huge by boarding the plane and all of that excludes the later flight that went out that night.
Looks like United might be pretty boned actually. I'll update with some snippets for context when I'm not on my phone. (if I remember)
quote:
In truth, airlines do indeed “bump” passengers from oversold flights, but the process by which they do so is to “deny boarding” to ticketed passengers who have otherwise complied with the boarding requirements. However, Dao was not denied boarding. Dao was granted boarding, and then subsequently involuntarily deplaned, which is not the same thing.
quote:
It appears that Dao had a valid ticket. He presented his ticket to the gate agent, who accepted the ticket, scanned it and granted him access to the causeway and the airplane. Because he was granted boarding, Dao walked onto the aircraft and took his seat. Only later, after he and the other passengers were in their seats, did a representative come onto the plane and explain that four seats would need to be surrendered to make room for four United Airlines employees who needed to get to Louisville.
quote:
Like all airlines, United has a very specific (and lengthy!) contract for carriage outlining the contractual relationship between the airline and the passenger. It includes a familiar set of provisions for when a passenger may be denied boarding (Rule 25: “Denied Boarding Compensation”).
When a flight is oversold, UA can deny boarding to some passengers, who then receive compensation under specific guidelines. However, Dao was not denied boarding. He was granted boarding and then involuntarily removed from the airplane. What does the contract say about that?
It turns out that the contract has a specific rule regarding “Refusal of Transport” (Rule 21), which lays out the conditions under which a passenger can be removed and refused transport on the aircraft. This includes situations where passengers act in a “disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent” manner, refuse to comply with the smoking policy, are barefoot or “not properly clothed,” as well as many other situations.
There is absolutely no provision for deplaning a seated passenger because the flight is oversold.
quote:
One might argue that Dao had not completed “boarding” until the cabin door was closed. This argument would be wrong. The term “boarding” is not defined in the definition section of the contract, and absent an explicit definition in the contract, terms are to be afforded their plain meaning.
“Boarding” means that the passenger presents a boarding pass to the gate agent who accepts or scans the pass and permits entry through the gate to the airplane, allowing the passenger to enter the aircraft and take a seat.
It is possible in this regard to distinguish between the collective completion of the plane’s boarding process, which is not complete until all passengers have boarded and the cabin door is closed. But that is different from each passenger’s boarding, which is complete for each individual once he or she has been accepted for transportation by the gate agent and proceeded to the aircraft and taken his or her assigned seat.
Worth a read for anyone who's enjoyed digging into the nuance of this one... It does put United in a bit of a corner whereas I think most of us have thought they might be largely in the clear. I've seen several other writeups from other lawyers which all are fairly similar, but I felt like this one probably covered it best. It doesn't touch on any possible federal regulations around NRMR or NRPS passengers, but as we've said, they effed up huge by boarding the plane and all of that excludes the later flight that went out that night.
This post was edited on 4/14/17 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 4/15/17 at 5:56 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Worth a read for anyone who's enjoyed digging into the nuance of this one... It does put United in a bit of a corner whereas I think most of us have thought they might be largely in the clear. I've seen several other writeups from other lawyers which all are fairly similar, but I felt like this one probably covered it best. It doesn't touch on any possible federal regulations around NRMR or NRPS passengers, but as we've said, they effed up huge by boarding the plane and all of that excludes the later flight that went out that night.
Good find...and it's interesting. My one caveat....years ago, before everything went computerized, ticket agents used to have a seating chart, that represented the particular aircraft he was working and had a place marked for every seat on the aircraft. There were pull off stickers in place of each seat, with the seat number printed on it. (Ex. 22A, 23C, etc) For through flights (Flights going from, say, Baton Rouge-Atlanta-Raliegh) the originating gate agents (Baton Rouge) would teletype ahead with the seats given out. The Atlanta gate agent would get a seating chart, and remove those seats, then assign seats to passengers as they reported to the gate agent for a seat assignment. As you can imagine, if the gate agent in Baton Rouge fat fingered a seat, or just read it wrong and typed in the wrong seat, the chart in Atlanta would be messed up or incorrect. This was more common than many would think. It was not unusual for a passenger to go to the seat given him in Atlanta and someone would be sitting in it. If there was a full flight, someone would have to be denied boarding and come off the airplane. I NEVER heard of anybody taking that to court and winning.
I would have to believe that there is something...somewhere that will negate what this professor is saying. However, I could be wrong....he seems to have done his homework, and things have changed drastically in the years after I left the ticket counter. If I were United, I would say when he refused to obey a crew members order, he became a disruption. I don't know if that would fly....I have a feeling United has a battery of lawyers going over every detail. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 10:23 am to DawgsLife
Update.
The money is not in the bank yet but it looks like I'm going to get credit for the ATL-CAE flight that I never took and that was cancelled (it won't be much)and reimbursement for my rental car - both of which should make my company very happy.
In addition, I received 20K airmiles for my trouble which isn't too bad. I did very little complaining and had all my paperwork. I might have gotten more but realistically this is a fair deal.
Delta remains my favorite.
The money is not in the bank yet but it looks like I'm going to get credit for the ATL-CAE flight that I never took and that was cancelled (it won't be much)and reimbursement for my rental car - both of which should make my company very happy.
In addition, I received 20K airmiles for my trouble which isn't too bad. I did very little complaining and had all my paperwork. I might have gotten more but realistically this is a fair deal.
Delta remains my favorite.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 10:43 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
20K airmiles
That might get you an upgrade to economy comfort on your next codeshare regional connection.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 11:00 am to deeprig9
I was flying Memphis - Chicago - Newark - Frankfort - Tel Aviv on United booked months in advance complete with seat assignment. Could check in online due to the international segments as you have to show ID in person. Got to the airport (Memphis - Chicago) and got the dreaded and hated "seat to be assigned at the gate" boarding pass. When I arrived at the gate, I was told to stand aside as will as two other passengers would be told over time. They let everyone else on the plane and in fact held it up waiting on 3 people (not us). When the 3 got there, they closed the gate door and the plane left. Needless to say that hosed my schedule. I raised so much hell they called the airport police which triangulated me. At that time, I decided discretion was the better part of valor, and left as they were close to taking me down. Myself and the other 2 passengers that got bumped all had international segments.
frick United.
frick United.
Posted on 4/21/17 at 11:04 am to WhopperDawg
quote:
I was flying Memphis - Chicago - Newark - Frankfort - Tel Aviv on United booked months in advance
That's where you went wrong.
Never book flights with more than 1 transfer. You are practically guaranteed to get screwed somewhere along the way.
Memphis to Chicago to Newark.. you could have rented a car to ATL and flown direct to Tel Aviv.
This post was edited on 4/21/17 at 11:05 am
Posted on 4/21/17 at 11:28 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
Update.
The money is not in the bank yet but it looks like I'm going to get credit for the ATL-CAE flight that I never took and that was cancelled (it won't be much)and reimbursement for my rental car - both of which should make my company very happy.
In addition, I received 20K airmiles for my trouble which isn't too bad. I did very little complaining and had all my paperwork. I might have gotten more but realistically this is a fair deal.
Delta remains my favorite.
GREAT! I'm glad to hear they treated you fairly!
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