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Magic Three... thoughts?

Posted on 7/23/16 at 10:59 pm
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 7/23/16 at 10:59 pm
Bulldawg Illustrated re-posted an only article from '09 about the rise of the TE and formation possibility referred to as the "Magic Three". LINK

The basic concept is something that looks like this:


quote:

Five offensive linemen, a quarterback, one running back, one wide receiver on the weak side, and three tight ends to the strong side. For years this formation has been discussed over drinks by coaches as the "dream" or "magic" second coming of classical football. The day when football comes full circle and returns to the 1930s and 1940s. The day when an offense is run the way it was always meant to run, but with the modern twist of the forward pass and advanced theories learned for the last century. Many coaches believe this formation will be the future of football, and revolutionize the way the game is played. Defensive coordinators, like me, consider it a nightmare. It will throw most defensive theory out of the window until a counter can be developed.

Why is the formation considered by football theorists to be magic?

The formation looks like a goal line formation. The only way to stop the run is to, likewise, set up a goal line defense. But what happens when those three tight ends, all a half step back from the line of scrimmage, are eligible to catch the ball? The subtle tricks are just as dangerous. Let's say an opposing team lines up at least one cornerback to cover one of the tight ends. In a run play, that cornerback probably gets knocked on his butt. Not impressed yet?

Further, in the formation there is still room for motion. There is also room for one or more of the tight ends to line up wide. How about one wide, one slot, one back with the RB, then a motion brings the wide in against the line? All of a sudden a pass defense with multiple defensive backs faces a "jumbo" run play.

The new formations and the new approach would revolutionize many aspects of football. For example, most teams might have one very good cornerback in a formation (to go against the wide receiver), but place more emphasis on a cornerback/linebacker hybrid player to match with tight ends on the line. The safety position would likewise probably drop to only one on the field. The fullback would vanish all together. Tight ends who further specialize might become "wings" instead of "tight ends". The tight ends and running back become the emphasis in the offense, not the quarterback or wide receiver. "Wings" would not only catch and block like modern tight ends, but run and block, further leading to confusion.

Another drastic change would be a shift from the "run vs. pass" paradigm to a paradigm of "power vs. finesse". The new system could be run as a powerful smash mouth tool, or it could rely on deception and timing.


So solo RB, WR and then 3 athletic TEs that can be used to absolutely frustrate the shite out of a defensive coordinator. On the surface, I love the idea and can't imagine any team has a more loaded TE group than UGA. With Blaze, Davis, Harris, Nauta, AND Woerner this feels like something that would be a crime not to at least see a few times.

What say the dawgrant? Love/Hate/Unsure? Are Smart and Chaney crazy enough to try to incorporate something like this?
This post was edited on 7/23/16 at 11:02 pm
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
32759 posts
Posted on 7/23/16 at 11:01 pm to
If our oc doesn't think of this himself, he needs a pay cut.
Posted by td01241
Savannah
Member since Nov 2012
22837 posts
Posted on 7/23/16 at 11:10 pm to
Why would they need to be crazy to try this? TE is probably our deepest unit.
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 7/23/16 at 11:25 pm to
quote:

Why would they need to be crazy to try this? TE is probably our deepest unit.


I probably should have put crazy in quotation marks... Going against the norm and running what most would consider to be an atypical/unproven offensive scheme in year one of a new head coach would take some brass ones if it doesn't pan out. They would have to spend a not insignificant amount of practice time to get this to work... it's not like it's an "add one play" sort of thing. But rather add one offensive personnel grouping, with a shite load of variations.

It's not crazy in that it would be a bad idea, just that it would take someone who's ready to shake up the status quo.
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
32759 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 12:14 am to
quote:

Why would they need to be crazy to try this? TE is probably our deepest unit.


How many teams run such an offense?
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 6:30 am to
Looks to me like a less effective version of the single wing.
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
58902 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 6:36 am to
quote:

Looks to me like a less effective version of the single wing.




I actually thought the same thing, but wasn't confident enough to say it.

If coaches have been talking about this for a long time, why hasn't somebody tired it? I mean, the way the article reads, it is near unstoppable. You read what the defense throws out on the field and your TE either splits wide or comes in tight for three TE tight with corresponding play run.

I mean, to a degree it makes sense, but if this is a known offense, with known advantages, I would think SOMEBODY somewhere would have tried it for a series or two against a weaker opponent to test out its theory.
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 6:37 am to
Also, TE 2 is covered up unless they changed the rules. He can only be a blocker in this formation.
Posted by DawgCountry
Great State of GA
Member since Sep 2012
30539 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 6:47 am to
It's basically what the Pats do at the goal line. Pretty Unstoppable with a guy like Gronk

We shouldn't base our O around this but at the goaline or 3/4th and short situations this could be lethal
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 7:01 am to
The Patriots do not cover up the inner TE on the strong side. The outside TE is off the line. They may use a Tackle for the inner TE, but he has to check in as an eligible receiver. If the outer TE lines up on the LOS, the inner TE is covered up, even if he checks in as eligible.
Posted by tylerdurden24
Member since Sep 2009
46409 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 8:10 am to
I think it's a cool redzone formation (especially with a healthy Chubb and Godwin at WR) but I'm not sure about outside the red zone. Need that threat of the play action pass to make plays like this one truly effective. It's all about keeping the defense on their heels and if you run a traditional play action strategy before getting into scoring position and whipping this out, then I think you've fricked with their heads pretty bad
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44681 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 8:25 am to
quote:

Also, TE 2 is covered up unless they changed the rules. He can only be a blocker in this formation.


Easy fix, just drop him or TE3 off the line and you'll still have the necessary number of players on the line
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 8:33 am to
I don't see how taking away one eligible receiver due to a poor choice of formation is fricking with anyone.


The other issue with bunch formations is that you still have to win at the point of attack and more you clog an area up, the more the Defense can clog it up too. Plus, this draw up shows a cover 2... Defenses are gonna roll into a cover 3 or combo coverage and move the SS closer to the point of attack.
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 8:38 am to
quote:



Easy fix, just drop him or TE3 off the line and you'll still have the necessary number of players on the line


I agree, that is a formation you see from time to time, but it is run out of the I formation
Posted by GurleyGirl
Georgia
Member since Nov 2015
13161 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 9:12 am to
I can see this formation being especially effective with a athletic QB, rolling out with a trailing RB with multiple options to run or pass. And if you have a talented WR on that left side, the formation very much isolates that WR on their CB.
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 9:35 am to
You can technically get the same isolation running twins or a trips right as well, but it really depends on the coverage. In the diagram above, the defense is showing cover 2, so the CB has good help deep and the Will LB is gonna be taking away anything quick to the inside.
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44681 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 10:02 am to
You're right, but I think this article assumes that no team will ever have three linebackers who can cover three pro bowl caliber TEs. Therefore, at least one of the LB/TE matchups will be a horrible mismatch for the defense.

The Patriots were headed down this road until Hernandez went to prison. They lined Gronk and Hernandez up everywhere. They'd line up as traditional TEs, as WRs, and I even remember a play against the Broncos in the playoffs where Brady was in the shotgun with 3 WR and the two TEs on either side of him in the backfield.

I would love to see Georgia try this some, as I think it could bean ultra effective tool in the short passing game if done properly.
Posted by smokehouse_83
New Mexico
Member since Jun 2013
1401 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 10:41 am to
We better see some TE usage this year, that's for sure. I don't care how they use them either, they are our second best group of players.
Posted by Peter Buck
Member since Sep 2012
12413 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 10:43 am to
You don't need three LBs covering them in man. You change personal to match their's and add a bigger SS and run a man under or combo zone and still be able to blitz the Mike if you want as he could get to any dive plays before the TE3 could hit the gap.
Posted by GurleyGirl
Georgia
Member since Nov 2015
13161 posts
Posted on 7/24/16 at 10:47 am to
Yep, bottom line: you recruit the best athletes you can get and then a smart coach plays to his strengths rather than locking into any one system regardless of personnel. So yea, if you have multiple talented TE's then you absolutely find innovative ways to get them out on the field together.
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