re: Fox returning as MBB coach next year

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If a coach is winning big at uga, then the program would be elevated above its current state.

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If you're winning big at UGA (making the dance, winning a few tourney games here or there), I would think you'd be pretty curious about what would be possible at a Syracuse/Michigan St. type of program.

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UGA (making the dance, winning a few tourney games here or there), I would think you'd be pretty curious about what would be possible at a Syracuse/Michigan St. type of program.

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Of course, those are elite top ten jobs, so the same point applies to them.

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Of course, those are elite top ten jobs, so the same point applies to them.

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I just got to thinking about this, so this isn't necessarily a response to you, but I think UGA would be hard pressed to keep a coach from these jobs:

Blue bloods (basically no chance of keeping): UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana

Modern powers (little chance): Syracuse, Michigan State, Villanova, Wisconsin, Florida (this one's sketchy because it would mean leaving for a rival), Louisville, Arizona, UConn

"Resource" powers (would be tough but closer to 50/50, places that haven't won as big as above but with a lot more tradition, priority and/or money behind basketball than UGA): Michigan, Ohio State, Texas, Stanford, Virginia, Notre Dame, Maryland, Oklahoma, NC State, Oklahoma State, Oregon

Well, it's the only one we have to use... the rest came here to die. Which further proves the point...

I would think that the lack of being able to bring a winner into Athens would be evidence too. We can't keep winners if we can't hire them.

Also, we weren't able to keep Harrick in Athens either. So, 0-2 excluding Fox. That's a 100% failure rate since we hired Tubby.

As usual, Stools can't manage to have a rational discussion and PB is too busy thinking that Smart is in win now mode but Fox can sit and spin and keep collecting a salary... why am I not surprised.

Crow though... bringin' tha heat. This is actually a valuable post... let's discuss the realities here:

UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas - no problems with any of these. They come calling and open up the wallet, likely no chance you keep a coach... but this would literally be the same for any other school.

UCLA - this is a weird one to me. I agree in principle that they are a blue blood, but it's almost entirely the product of one coach. 11 NCAA championships, 10 of which belong to Wooden. Harrick of course had the other. This was an interesting note regarding coaches since Wooden:
"After Wooden retired, the four coaches that succeeded him resigned, and the following three—Harrick included—were fired. The average tenure of those coaches after Wooden was four years. Former coach Ben Howland, led the Bruins to three consecutive Final Four appearances from 2006 to 2008."

Howland was given 10 years and seemingly peaked in the middle, so understandable that after 5 years since the last final 4, he could be let go. Alford is there now and hasn't missed the tournament, but hasn't managed to get past the sweet 16... on the upside for him he seems to have the Ball family on lock for future recruiting at the moment. He's only making 2.6 million per year though... and guys like Stevens and Smart turned the job down to take less money. I think it's not a no-brainer like the others listed as blue bloods. Further reading...

Indiana - They're likely the top job open this year, but evidence points to them possibly having a slightly harder time getting "their guy" than you might think... They could probably take a UGA coach, but I would put them at the next tier down... likely pushing some other jobs above them (Louisville, Michigan St, and Syracuse come to mind).

Would drop Wisconsin down a rung for sure... they've had success, but again, another single coach (Bo Ryan) largely responsible. Greg Gard having a good first full year though... only making 1.75M. Villanova is an interesting one. I'm not sure how much of it is their program and how much of it is just that Jay Wright is a *really* freaking good coach. I don't know that they are even in a position to "buy" a coach from us anyways. They pay Wright just under 2.5 million now, and that's after a 17 year run of success. Half a mill isn't going to get someone to walk away from a program that they have started to have success at to start over and have higher expectations in a lot of cases. Villanova doesn't recruit itself like some of the programs listed higher.


With the resource powers, I'd argue that some are more likely than others. Probably drop Oklahoma St and NC State off of the list, not that it's impossible, but those are not exactly in the same league with the others IMO. NC St is what the 3rd or 4th best program in their state alone... They've had decent runs before, but it's not an easy place to win but the desire to do so is very high... after 4 pretty good seasons (couple of sweet 16 appearances), Gottfried is fired for 2 poor ones.

I think the biggest concern if you want to worry about losing a coach would be the fact that there is going to be a wave of blue blood openings in the next few years... Coach K, Roy Williams, Pitino... these guys are getting up there in years. Boeheim is stepping down after this season, right? (long time assistant was supposed to take the gig... so I guess keep an eye 3-4 years down the road if doesn't meet expectations). But if you worry about that, you'll be worried for the next 10+ years as others start to follow.... there is always going to be a glamorous opening out there somewhere, but the fact that one time, the perfect candidate was at UGA for an opening doesn't mean we're the place that would likely get plucked from in every case. There is an element of the Athletic Department in general that would need to change to ensure that we *don't* get our coach stolen... basketball can't be an afterthought, and if someone has success it shouldn't be like pulling teeth to get them contract extensions, raises, or facility improvements that are actually needed.

Fox flat out consistently does not get the team prepared to win big games... and a win over Kentucky in the tournament tomorrow doesn't even tell me anything more. After 8 years, we know what we have with him. Not exactly "respectable" but at least "watchable" basketball... I guess you guys are cool with that. We're already paying big boy money, but not getting big boy results... To the people that want to say that Fox hasn't recruited AAU or wasn't allowed to, this is garbage. JJ Frazier played AAU. Maten played AAU (on the same team as Mike Edwards). KCP obviously played AAU... We might be somewhat handcuffed, but it's not preventing us from signing AAU talent.

No one is saying that firing a coach and bringing a new one in is a surefire way to make it to the tournament, but you're consistently *NOT* going to the tournament with Fox... Stating that a new coach isn't a guarantee of any specific measure of success doesn't change that Fox hasn't managed to reach a level of success in 8 years that most would consider adequate. If he was making it to the tournament 2/3 years and losing in the first round, fine... maybe it's a talent issue, but he's taking a roster with 2 all SEC players and managing to place in the bottom half of the conference standings and is barely on the bubble (if that).

I don't think that anyone can reasonably argue that Fox is the coach we need save a couple on this board and the admins. It has been 8 years.

I am tired of the "scared" arguments -

We can't fire Richt because we could get worse.
We can't fire Fox because the new coach could leave.

Bit the bullet and move one, we will not get worse assuming a good hire.

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Posted by Peter Buck on 3/9/17 at 8:05 pm to Barstools Since the 70s, only one coach left on his own and had a better job after he left. That speaks volumes.

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Are you saying a blue blood didn't steal uga's coach after the 1983 final four? Crazy. Must not have been any perfect storms that year.

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I appreciate what Fox has done for the program, but I have no personal loyalties to him. Whether we keep him or hire the next Dean Smith, we need to show that the University has the commitment to take this program to the next level.

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this