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The fanbase, aggydom, and poisoning the well
Posted on 1/4/16 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 1/4/16 at 2:53 pm
Don't bother reading or replying if you can't have a discussion without misrepresenting facts.
"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." - Joseph Goebbels
As is obvious by some of the posts around here, the fanbase is not happy. But an intellectually honest discussion is not possible because - and this goes across every A&M message board - posters have made up things which they repeat over and over and over and over that simply aren't true.
The purpose I imagine is to get others to agree with their point of view. And for the most part, I'd say that has been successful because the mob now repeats many of these "facts" whenever they discuss folks within our athletic department. And that seems to have led to an outward display at sporting events that is rather new for A&M.
I'm not saying we're any different than any other large fanbase. I'm saying we are no longer any different than any other fanbase. And it disappoints me. Not only because I'd like to take pride in not only our team but our fans, but also because it's self-defeating.
Coaches, admins, etc, are working in an incredibly hostile environment and the fans are consistently making their jobs harder as every player and recruit is hearing it from both rival fans and from our very own. It also makes hiring far harder, reducing future options.
This mob mentality is what makes Texags so awful. There it can certainly swing pro and con. But it's invasive even here now. There are problems. There are always problems. But honest dialogue is just crushed under the Goebbels mob.
What can we do about this? And I don't mean just on this board, but in general. Because I honestly believe our fanbase should be a major plus for A&M and it's just not right now.
"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." - Joseph Goebbels
As is obvious by some of the posts around here, the fanbase is not happy. But an intellectually honest discussion is not possible because - and this goes across every A&M message board - posters have made up things which they repeat over and over and over and over that simply aren't true.
The purpose I imagine is to get others to agree with their point of view. And for the most part, I'd say that has been successful because the mob now repeats many of these "facts" whenever they discuss folks within our athletic department. And that seems to have led to an outward display at sporting events that is rather new for A&M.
I'm not saying we're any different than any other large fanbase. I'm saying we are no longer any different than any other fanbase. And it disappoints me. Not only because I'd like to take pride in not only our team but our fans, but also because it's self-defeating.
Coaches, admins, etc, are working in an incredibly hostile environment and the fans are consistently making their jobs harder as every player and recruit is hearing it from both rival fans and from our very own. It also makes hiring far harder, reducing future options.
This mob mentality is what makes Texags so awful. There it can certainly swing pro and con. But it's invasive even here now. There are problems. There are always problems. But honest dialogue is just crushed under the Goebbels mob.
What can we do about this? And I don't mean just on this board, but in general. Because I honestly believe our fanbase should be a major plus for A&M and it's just not right now.
18
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:01 pm to tmc94
First step is to spell AGGIE correctly.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:04 pm to tmc94
quote:
posters have made up things which they repeat over and over and over and over that simply aren't true.
Ok, so what absolutely isn't true then?
If you are not willing to actually go on record about what isn't true, but just want to be vague and preach to us about how we should behave instead, then this is just yet another of your holier-than-thou sermons. You posted one of these a couple of weeks ago. We get it. We don't meet your standards. You're so superior. It gets old.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:12 pm to tmc94
I get what you're saying, but part of moving to the SEC and building a palace for a Stadlum was going to be large (perhaps unrealistically so) expectations. We aren't the same old A&M anymore, for better or worse.
Another thing that hurts us is the trend we are headed down seems too familiar. That probably isn't fair to the current staff, but it's the truth.
What can we do about this? I honestly don't know (aside from winning of course but easier said than done obviously). It's tough to be positive because there isn't a lot of past success to draw upon. If you shut down the rumors/memes/lies people get pissed, and if you do nothing then they fester.
I've tried to post more rationally on A&M football on here since Murray and Allen transferred but I'm not going to pretend to be positive just for the better good. I follow A&M football and spend money on it because I enjoy it (yes, even now), and I feel like once you're lying to yourself about the state of it you might legit have a problem caring too much about sports.
Another thing that hurts us is the trend we are headed down seems too familiar. That probably isn't fair to the current staff, but it's the truth.
What can we do about this? I honestly don't know (aside from winning of course but easier said than done obviously). It's tough to be positive because there isn't a lot of past success to draw upon. If you shut down the rumors/memes/lies people get pissed, and if you do nothing then they fester.
I've tried to post more rationally on A&M football on here since Murray and Allen transferred but I'm not going to pretend to be positive just for the better good. I follow A&M football and spend money on it because I enjoy it (yes, even now), and I feel like once you're lying to yourself about the state of it you might legit have a problem caring too much about sports.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:14 pm to tmc94
quote:Such as what?
As is obvious by some of the posts around here, the fanbase is not happy. But an intellectually honest discussion is not possible because - and this goes across every A&M message board - posters have made up things which they repeat over and over and over and over that simply aren't true.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:15 pm to Cooter Davenport
1. Sumlin talking to NFL is pure speculation
2. Sumlin lied to Bmas about Meachum is pure fabrication
2. Sumlin lied to Bmas about Meachum is pure fabrication
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:19 pm to tmc94
Great thread tmc. I have thought about this a lot myself this season, and I almost made a thread. I think the answer is it is a consequence of higher stakes and a major program. In fact when you look at the Les Miles situation you know if could be worse if we had a bigger bandwagon.
Part of my conclusion is based on lurking Nebraska forums all season, aka the most polite fans in football. After the year they had they too ate their own, tried to get a year one coach fired, and talked bad about the staff around recruits. Nebraska fans wondered if what made them special was lost much like you, when it became obvious to me is what made them special in the past was ignorance. More than one commented in the current world their best coach ever would have been fired long before he won a single title. In the old days they would have rallied around a year one coach and moved forward. Today everyone is an armchair QB and the narrative is set elsewhere (like which coaches are awesome and which ones aren't) outside your walls by ESPN or whoever. The end result is Nebraska fans wanted to skin a coach just because other potential coaches they could have hired seemed better on paper. It's became a toxic cycle that didn't allow them to enjoy positives in the season and maybe setup their coach to fail.
The only real advantage Aggies have IMHO is the disposition to support and give our own narrative instead of an outside narrative. I think the AD should pull a Deloss and hand talking points to the media off the books, so that way the rumors are contested and when decisions are made the fanbase doesn't have to generate their own silver lining. But beyond that what we get goes with the territory.
Part of my conclusion is based on lurking Nebraska forums all season, aka the most polite fans in football. After the year they had they too ate their own, tried to get a year one coach fired, and talked bad about the staff around recruits. Nebraska fans wondered if what made them special was lost much like you, when it became obvious to me is what made them special in the past was ignorance. More than one commented in the current world their best coach ever would have been fired long before he won a single title. In the old days they would have rallied around a year one coach and moved forward. Today everyone is an armchair QB and the narrative is set elsewhere (like which coaches are awesome and which ones aren't) outside your walls by ESPN or whoever. The end result is Nebraska fans wanted to skin a coach just because other potential coaches they could have hired seemed better on paper. It's became a toxic cycle that didn't allow them to enjoy positives in the season and maybe setup their coach to fail.
The only real advantage Aggies have IMHO is the disposition to support and give our own narrative instead of an outside narrative. I think the AD should pull a Deloss and hand talking points to the media off the books, so that way the rumors are contested and when decisions are made the fanbase doesn't have to generate their own silver lining. But beyond that what we get goes with the territory.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:21 pm to tmc94
Eh, I agree but I'm not sure we have real accountability within our athletic department and football program.
And I don't mean for wins and losses, I mean for right and wrong.
And I don't mean for wins and losses, I mean for right and wrong.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:21 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
It's tough to be positive because there isn't a lot of past success to draw upon. If you shut down the rumors/memes/lies people get pissed, and if you do nothing then they fester.
yeah I'm not saying be positive. I get that people aren't. Nor the rumors. They are rumors. And since cooter specifically asked, here's a good example of what I'm talking about in a post he just made
quote:
It is ridiculous that he lobbied for TCU to host over A&M. But not ridiculous as in that didn't happen - he said so himself that he lobbied for TCU over A&M. He publicly admitted it.
This is flat false. He mentioned he was not allowed to lobby because his role makes him leave the room when A&M is discussed. That's what actually happened.
"I presented my case when I could and then had to leave the room. All the schools were debated and discussed. I wasn't even there when they ranked the top eight because I had to be out of the room. Of course, I'’m an advocate (for A&M), but I'm only 10%.”
Should we be upset that Hyman didn't lobby harder for A&M? Maybe so. I don't have a problem criticizing him for that. But saying he lobbied against us is just falsehood. And to what end?
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:22 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
1. Sumlin talking to NFL is pure speculation
First of all, I addressed the OP, not you.
Second, the only person who denies this is Billy, who Sumlin's buddy and also a person dependent on him for inside info to feed his subscription service. Every other person with any insight, including people outside of our program altogether, have said without any doubt that he has been marketing himself to the NFL over the past month. We know for a fact that he was doing it before his new contract, even Billy admits that. Why is it surprising at all that he's doing it again? I think it actually makes sense on his part and wish he would go ahead and go.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:23 pm to tmc94
Isn't that just cgsc? Does anyone pay attention to his unfounded melts anymore?
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:23 pm to tmc94
A&M's investment in Sumlin -- from the extremely generous contract given his accomplishments, the stadium, the locker room, and the nutrition center + weight room, all in such short order -- is literally unprecedented. Nobody had ever rolled out the red carpet like that until we did it.
In return, he hasn't seemed to take the offense seriously since Kingsbury left (just believed that his system was so awesome it would roll up points no matter what), there are rumors of all sorts of misconduct, and he's still flirting with the fricking NFL. The fact that our fanbase is pissed about this is a sign that that their brains are still working. They answered the call and they deserve to have a coach that acknowledges their financial sacrifices and honors them by taking the job seriously. Hiring a 28 year old and then watching him struggle mightily for two years does not seem to show that commitment.
In return, he hasn't seemed to take the offense seriously since Kingsbury left (just believed that his system was so awesome it would roll up points no matter what), there are rumors of all sorts of misconduct, and he's still flirting with the fricking NFL. The fact that our fanbase is pissed about this is a sign that that their brains are still working. They answered the call and they deserve to have a coach that acknowledges their financial sacrifices and honors them by taking the job seriously. Hiring a 28 year old and then watching him struggle mightily for two years does not seem to show that commitment.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:26 pm to Warrior Poet
quote:
Isn't that just cgsc?
the quoted post is Cooter Davenport
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:30 pm to tmc94
Here's what he had to say about it. Nothing but apologetics for his team, TCU.
quote:
TCU had an RPI of eight, while ours was six so that's really splitting hairs. SOS, theirs was 96, ours was 58. The non-conference SOS, theirs was 129 and ours was 195. If there was an Achilles heal for us, in the eyes of the other members, that was it. Against the top-100 teams, they were 17-9 (sic) and we were 23-10 so that's probably pretty close. Positives that were said to me about TCU, they won six of eight series including five conference sweeps. Swept each of the last five regular season series, including one non-conference. In non-con, they won 2-of-3 from Arizona on the road, beat UCLA and Vanderbilt, split with Dallas Baptist and went 11-5 vs teams in the field. Against common opponents with A&M, they went 13-3. They also won the conference by 3.5 games over Oklahoma State. Negatives were the last two losses in the conference tournament and that their conference had a down year.
A&M finished second behind LSU in the top conference. Started the year 24-0, were 25-0 in non-conference with wins over DBU, Houston and Rice. Went 11-6 against tournament teams. Negatives were that we finished 10-8, went 1-3-1 in our last five conference series. The non-conference SOS was the worst among the last six teams mentioned and they begin to split hairs and are looking to eliminate you. When you stack them up, there is very little differential.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:30 pm to tmc94
Ah. Well carry on. Yes that's ridiculous.
I will say that there are rumors going around right now that I wish someone who is credible would squash. Some, however, are in all likelihood true and there lies the problem.
I will say that there are rumors going around right now that I wish someone who is credible would squash. Some, however, are in all likelihood true and there lies the problem.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:32 pm to tmc94
quote:
What can we do about this?
For starters the staff can actually communicate what's going on with the program to the fans, it won't stop all the rumors but it'll slow them down. They can also admit it when they make mistakes and quit passing the buck so to speak.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:36 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
I have thought about this a lot myself this season,
yeah, I've been meaning to start this thread for a while. I've had this discussion off-line with several people now (and I don't think I even initiated it most of the time).
The conclusion I've come to is that AD that can best control the mob in this day and age is the one most likely to be successful. And frankly A&M should have a big leg up on that because a large portion of our fanbase are ready to assimilate.
I think for instance Sumlin's callousness towards the media and especially paysites from day one has led to a lot of this in football because he has essentially ceded all control of a narrative.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:37 pm to Old Sarge
Old Sarge, Sumlin talking with the NFL isn't pure speculation. He's done it in the past and several legit media outlets (including NFL.com) picked it up this year.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:43 pm to tmc94
Makes you kind of miss dollar bills weekly Wednesday's 
We knew what that dude was doing at all times and he wasn't afraid to correct an incorrect rumor
We knew what that dude was doing at all times and he wasn't afraid to correct an incorrect rumor
Posted on 1/4/16 at 3:44 pm to tmc94
Personally, I feel like the Murray/Allen transfer brought out the Sumlin haters in full force and it all snowballed into what we have today. And if I recall correctly, this is what everybody wanted to begin with, so I do wonder...why exactly are we melting for??? Spavital is gone, so cheer the frick up people. It's a new beginning on offense and we still have Chavis.
I'm not going to pretend I'm an angel. I've also gone full retard. Part of that is thanks to being desensitised by the need of wanting to know what is going on at all times. Rumors and gossip have prevailed and it is quite sad that the TA mentality has bled over.
I apologize for my transgressions. Please accept my offerings.
I'm not going to pretend I'm an angel. I've also gone full retard. Part of that is thanks to being desensitised by the need of wanting to know what is going on at all times. Rumors and gossip have prevailed and it is quite sad that the TA mentality has bled over.
I apologize for my transgressions. Please accept my offerings.
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