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re: B-O-R-I-N-G
Posted on 7/8/17 at 5:48 pm to Cooter Davenport
Posted on 7/8/17 at 5:48 pm to Cooter Davenport
This meme needs to die. I'm not here to fellate Patterson, but at this point I'd damn near give my left nut to see A&M hold an SEC club with 10 wins to 3 points - even if it was just for one game, and the rest of our performances were horrible - par for us.
Nowhere did I say Patterson would do it game-in, game-out. I'm saying he found athletes to execute a defense that shut em down for 60 minutes. He doesn't get in (and certainly doesn't win) recruiting battles with Alabama and LSU.
Nowhere did I say Patterson would do it game-in, game-out. I'm saying he found athletes to execute a defense that shut em down for 60 minutes. He doesn't get in (and certainly doesn't win) recruiting battles with Alabama and LSU.
1
Posted on 7/9/17 at 7:12 am to KSCC
I don't think you have a point.
We DO have to do it game in, game out.
I don't give a rats arse what TCU does. Their situation is totally different from ours.
The topic that was being discussed before you butted in with this irrelevant TCU bullshite was which way to go in terms of coaching philosophy seeing as Texas doesn't produce top-flight defensive players in volume and we can't steal any away from the southeast.
You tried to suggest the Patterson DOES find elite defensive players in Texas, and I countered with the truth: that he doesn't do that, he is just able to get his team up for one big game a year. You haven't refuted that, you are no longer even trying to argue the original claim you made (that Patterson is able to find SEC level defenders in Texas that others are just overlooking), and you are now falling back on this silly crap instead:
What a pathetic statement. If that's your goal for A&M then, whatever, continue to pine after Patterson, but that's not MY goal for A&M and I don't think that's what most here desire. I don't want to live off of silly moral victories. I want to find a way to win every damn game. At this point, I think that requires a realistic analysis of what we're really able to do defensively - given the defensive talent we have the possibility of recruiting here in Texas right now, as a consequence of Texas HS football putting all the talent on offense starting in 7th grade and mostly abandoning defense. Maybe watching Chief drown while trying to establish a defense with what we are able to bring in from our pool of high schools will wake some people up.
We DO have to do it game in, game out.
I don't give a rats arse what TCU does. Their situation is totally different from ours.
The topic that was being discussed before you butted in with this irrelevant TCU bullshite was which way to go in terms of coaching philosophy seeing as Texas doesn't produce top-flight defensive players in volume and we can't steal any away from the southeast.
You tried to suggest the Patterson DOES find elite defensive players in Texas, and I countered with the truth: that he doesn't do that, he is just able to get his team up for one big game a year. You haven't refuted that, you are no longer even trying to argue the original claim you made (that Patterson is able to find SEC level defenders in Texas that others are just overlooking), and you are now falling back on this silly crap instead:
quote:
I'd damn near give my left nut to see A&M hold an SEC club with 10 wins to 3 points - even if it was just for one game and the rest of our performances were horrible
What a pathetic statement. If that's your goal for A&M then, whatever, continue to pine after Patterson, but that's not MY goal for A&M and I don't think that's what most here desire. I don't want to live off of silly moral victories. I want to find a way to win every damn game. At this point, I think that requires a realistic analysis of what we're really able to do defensively - given the defensive talent we have the possibility of recruiting here in Texas right now, as a consequence of Texas HS football putting all the talent on offense starting in 7th grade and mostly abandoning defense. Maybe watching Chief drown while trying to establish a defense with what we are able to bring in from our pool of high schools will wake some people up.
This post was edited on 7/9/17 at 7:18 am
Posted on 7/9/17 at 8:22 am to Cooter Davenport
My point is to call bullshite on your claim that we'll always have a shitty defense because Texas doesn't produce enough talent.
I only bring up Patterson to say - coaching matters. He doesn't put many kids in the NFL and you're fooling yourself if you don't think he'd fair better than we have with our schedule.
The plan "hey let's just concede our defensive situation and hire a HC to outscore em" is what got Sumlin here.
I only bring up Patterson to say - coaching matters. He doesn't put many kids in the NFL and you're fooling yourself if you don't think he'd fair better than we have with our schedule.
The plan "hey let's just concede our defensive situation and hire a HC to outscore em" is what got Sumlin here.
Posted on 7/9/17 at 8:40 am to Cooter Davenport
Oh and TX produced 3 of the top 6 picks in this years draft - all defenders. Can we please drop the "Tx doesn't produce good defenders" BS?
Posted on 7/10/17 at 7:51 pm to KSCC
Now this is more like it!
Posted on 7/10/17 at 10:13 pm to lonestar91
This is likely going to be a tough year friends. We actually have a decent chance of starting 5-0 but the schedule is set up nicely for a 2-5 finish.
Of course, lose to UCLA and I could easily see 5-7.
Rewatched the UT game from last year a while back, and I keep coming away feeling like that game more than maybe any epitomizes Sumlin as a coach. How do you have a +5 TO margin at home and nearly lose in OT? You have to try to not win that game by 30.
Of course, lose to UCLA and I could easily see 5-7.
Rewatched the UT game from last year a while back, and I keep coming away feeling like that game more than maybe any epitomizes Sumlin as a coach. How do you have a +5 TO margin at home and nearly lose in OT? You have to try to not win that game by 30.
Posted on 7/11/17 at 1:02 am to Roger Klarvin
We lose to the pigs this year and ucla, we start 2-2, and finish 6-6 or 5-7.
Posted on 7/11/17 at 1:19 am to Roger Klarvin
UCLA game should have ended 27-9, not gone to ot.
Posted on 7/11/17 at 11:02 pm to KSCC
quote:
I only bring up Patterson to say - coaching matters.
Yeah, it matters so much that TCU's defense was ranked #78 last year.
Reality is - on defense, Larrys and Joes matter waaaaaay more on than Xs and Os. You can scheme your way to offensive production, but you can't do the same on defense. An incompetent DC can make good talent look mediocre, but a supremely talented DC can't make poor talent look good. You are what you are talent-wise on D.
This post was edited on 7/11/17 at 11:23 pm
Posted on 7/11/17 at 11:08 pm to KSCC
quote:
Oh and TX produced 3 of the top 6 picks in this years draft - all defenders.
The defensive talent in this state is an inch deep. Despite those top draft picks, which included Charmin-soft Myles Garrett (complete lack of nastiness, which is typical of Texas defensive talent), the TOP rated Texas college defense was only #78!!! The best one was dogshit! So those top guys didn't matter much because there was jack shite for depth after them.
The facts bear me out here.
We went out and paid $1,000,000 a year for one of the top 5 active DCs in the college game and two years later we are still 'round-about the same as we were under his predecessor and the guy before that and the guy before that all the way back 'till you get to RC, who coached the last Wrecking Crews, which coincided with an era when Texas High Schools still played defense! So either Chief just forgot how to coach, or talent matters more than coaching on defense and our defensive talent level sucks, which is the case for all Texas college teams, because we live in a state where the fricking cancer that is 7 on 7 is more important than real football.
This post was edited on 7/11/17 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 7/12/17 at 11:09 am to Cooter Davenport
UH was like top 15 in total defense and pounded FSU OU and Louisville on defense in the last 18 months
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:25 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
Had to go back to look at the stats after reading "pounded", their defense still gave up yards in all three of those games about 400 per. The games were decided by turnovers where UH had a 10 to 2 advantage. Defense in Texas High Schools suck and they turn out soft LB's and Lineman that you can get away with in the BDF but in the SEC they get exposed year after year.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:24 pm to TxWadingFool
OU and Louisville were #2 and 3 in the country in total offense last year and UH held them to 390 yards and 312 yards respectively. OU rolled up like 530 yards of offense on Auburn.
Front 7 talent in Texas is not the same as FL GA or LA, but Sumlin has also instilled a soft arse culture. I have no idea how Herman will do at Texas, but his teams played physical football on defense at UH and did so against some of the best offenses in the country when they had the chance
Front 7 talent in Texas is not the same as FL GA or LA, but Sumlin has also instilled a soft arse culture. I have no idea how Herman will do at Texas, but his teams played physical football on defense at UH and did so against some of the best offenses in the country when they had the chance
Posted on 7/12/17 at 4:44 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
In my opinion he DOESN'T get credit for that, no. Lesser teams can get up for one big game where they topple a bigger program. It's a completely different thing entirely to play a team on that level week after week. The conference schedule of the SEC would grind Gary Patterson's little twinks and his 4-2-5 into dogmeat and at the end of the season his beat to shite team would be losing nothing bowls to Louisville, just like us. He has NOT been finding SEC caliber defenders. He's been finding guys who can slow the spread in the MWC and the Big 12.
Missouri's defense in 2015 was 6th in the country in total defense, while having to deal with one of the absolute worst offenses I have ever seen on the other side of the ball
Do you think Sumlin and Chavis could coach that same group of kids into a top 25 defense in the country?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:35 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
Lost possessions via TO affects offensive production is what I was getting at. You won't get am argument from me about the charmin soft culture that KS fosters.
This post was edited on 7/12/17 at 11:37 pm
Posted on 7/13/17 at 2:41 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
Do you think Sumlin and Chavis could coach that same group of kids into a top 25 defense in the country?
Hell no.
Please don't interpret my point in these posts as somehow being an angle from which to defend Sumlin. Sumlin is indefensible.
My goal is to advocate for hiring Chip Kelly.
We aren't going to be able to recruit the talent to put forth a consistently dominant defense because we are stuck recruiting from among Texas high schools, which right now only produce 7-on-7 pussies. With that in mind, the only way for us to win is to out-offense opponents. So I don't want a defensive coordinator or defensively minded coach to replace Sumlin. I want to go balls to the wall offense and that's Chip Kelly.
For those of you who say "isn't that what Sumlin does?" No, it isn't. At this point we need to admit that Sumlin isn't a mind for anything. He's no great genius at any facet of the game. KK made him look good, inheriting Briles' program made him look good, Manziel made him look good. With all those things gone it is clear that the emperor has no clothes.
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:07 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
Hell no.
Please don't interpret my point in these posts as somehow being an angle from which to defend Sumlin. Sumlin is indefensible.
My goal is to advocate for hiring Chip Kelly.
We aren't going to be able to recruit the talent to put forth a consistently dominant defense because we are stuck recruiting from among Texas high schools, which right now only produce 7-on-7 pussies. With that in mind, the only way for us to win is to out-offense opponents. So I don't want a defensive coordinator or defensively minded coach to replace Sumlin. I want to go balls to the wall offense and that's Chip Kelly.
I hear you on all this and I would love Chip. We will still need a good defense to win big though. I think there's enough talent on defense in Texas (supplementing with second tier LA talent) to at least be a top 25 D once every three years or so. Time that with a top flight Kelly offense and you have a NC contender. That's just my opinion. I know we aren't going to consistently dominate on defense, but I also don't think we should be consistently bad.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 8:09 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
LSU fans love CGSC Lobotomy. Thanks for doing our homework for us.
Posted on 7/14/17 at 9:22 am to Cooter Davenport
I disagree with you on so many levels.
First of all, had Chip Kelly coached at a SEC school instead of Oregon, none of us would even know his name today.
Second, winning in this league (and championships) is all about defense. Defense wins in any sport at any level. Sure you can have a prolific offense and be like XII teams and have basketball scores at your games. But how many of them win national championships with that model? None. How many times has Oregon won the NC? None.
Third, there is elite defensive talent in Texas. We've got to find it. A&M has got to be the destination school for elite Texas defensive talent. Kids like Von Miller and Myles Garrett. And honestly, we are getting there. Look at this class and look at our track record. We have a history of elite OLs two very recent defenders going in the first round!
Fourth, we can be the destination for elite Weat Coast defensive talent. With the PAC being all out 7 on 7 like Texas, there is elite defensive talent in California and Arizona. We are in prime position to compete for these kids.
Lastly, you will never win in the SEC with an offense first regime. You need a balanced system. You have got to be able to run the ball, pass the ball and stop the run on defense. Louisiana grows guys like Leonard Fornette and Darius Guise on trees, and we have got to be able to defend them. When is the last time we had a big, bruising bad arse RB that hit harder than a CB? We need to find these guys also.
No to Chip Kelly and no to the 7 on 7. We need to adapt to our league and look at what wins. And if we ditch Sumlin and hire an offensive coach, we also need to either try and keep Chavis or find someone that is truly committed to having a ruthless defense.
Every kid that goes on to the NFL has to grow up at some point and play big boy football, and not tiddly winks. Texas high school talent can go to the XII and play pass and giggle or come to the SEC and play football. Who puts more kids in the NFL? It isn't spread teams!
First of all, had Chip Kelly coached at a SEC school instead of Oregon, none of us would even know his name today.
Second, winning in this league (and championships) is all about defense. Defense wins in any sport at any level. Sure you can have a prolific offense and be like XII teams and have basketball scores at your games. But how many of them win national championships with that model? None. How many times has Oregon won the NC? None.
Third, there is elite defensive talent in Texas. We've got to find it. A&M has got to be the destination school for elite Texas defensive talent. Kids like Von Miller and Myles Garrett. And honestly, we are getting there. Look at this class and look at our track record. We have a history of elite OLs two very recent defenders going in the first round!
Fourth, we can be the destination for elite Weat Coast defensive talent. With the PAC being all out 7 on 7 like Texas, there is elite defensive talent in California and Arizona. We are in prime position to compete for these kids.
Lastly, you will never win in the SEC with an offense first regime. You need a balanced system. You have got to be able to run the ball, pass the ball and stop the run on defense. Louisiana grows guys like Leonard Fornette and Darius Guise on trees, and we have got to be able to defend them. When is the last time we had a big, bruising bad arse RB that hit harder than a CB? We need to find these guys also.
No to Chip Kelly and no to the 7 on 7. We need to adapt to our league and look at what wins. And if we ditch Sumlin and hire an offensive coach, we also need to either try and keep Chavis or find someone that is truly committed to having a ruthless defense.
Every kid that goes on to the NFL has to grow up at some point and play big boy football, and not tiddly winks. Texas high school talent can go to the XII and play pass and giggle or come to the SEC and play football. Who puts more kids in the NFL? It isn't spread teams!
This post was edited on 7/14/17 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 7/14/17 at 10:16 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
I wouldn't be that worried about defense if we hired Chip. Oregon's defenses were pretty good. Defensive FEI rankings his four years as HC were 22nd, 5th, 9th, and 4th.
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