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re: 2016 Recruiting Discussion
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:16 pm to TexasAg13
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:16 pm to TexasAg13
yep, here's the quotes from his original appeal. I'm not trying to compare to the Baylor thing, but you'd think coaches would be a little more concerned with character after seeing that. Neill is West Mesquite head coach
quote:
@corbettsmithDMN
Damning testimony from Neill: tried everything with Anderson to "at the very minimum" treat coaches/players with respect and practice hard.
@corbettsmithDMN
Neill say that Anderson had been suspended two weeks prior to fight, for insubordination (final incidence with headphones, of all things).
@corbettsmithDMN
Neill says Anderson bowed up with WM's WR coach after the fight. "That stepped over a line with me."
1
Posted on 9/2/15 at 1:15 pm to tmc94
quote:
Instead of hey - someone who pays for info give that to me for free. Try starting a discussion about Little and his recruitment and someone would almost certainly chime in with what Hamm said since it's fresh content.
Best way to handle this.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 1:41 pm to tmc94
He sounds like a Locker-room Cancer.
Someone desperate will pick him up, but no matter how good he is I hope we stay far away. That attitude breeds bad situations that ripple out into your program wrecking things as they go. Seen that all too often.
Someone desperate will pick him up, but no matter how good he is I hope we stay far away. That attitude breeds bad situations that ripple out into your program wrecking things as they go. Seen that all too often.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 2:41 pm to Cooter Davenport
Yeah, I think this mostly highlights the different philosophies on recruiting. The biggest red flag to me in those comments was "and practice hard." This is one of the first things on our evals now. Anyone that we don't feel is "self-motivated" we're not going to recruit.
There are plenty of guys that show maturity over years - Von Miller is a great example - but in our review a few years ago, the miss rate on top prospects that scored low on self-motivation is extraordinarily high.
We actually identified 4 characteristics (I think it's 4) that have nothing to do with talent in our evals and anyone below a certain score on any of those will not be recruited no matter the talent level. I don't know the scoring system or where guys score on things (including Dee) but the idea behind it was simply to weed out guys with extremely high bust potential.
There are plenty of guys that show maturity over years - Von Miller is a great example - but in our review a few years ago, the miss rate on top prospects that scored low on self-motivation is extraordinarily high.
We actually identified 4 characteristics (I think it's 4) that have nothing to do with talent in our evals and anyone below a certain score on any of those will not be recruited no matter the talent level. I don't know the scoring system or where guys score on things (including Dee) but the idea behind it was simply to weed out guys with extremely high bust potential.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 3:33 pm to tmc94
quote:
We actually identified 4 characteristics
If you would have said "core values" I would have
Posted on 9/2/15 at 4:17 pm to cardboardboxer
haha and I know why you say that but just to be clear, these aren't rules or values. It's part of the eval process. A few years ago, our AD investigated why some guys pan out and some don't. And yes, some things they came back with were character and grades and you may notice we don't take many risks on either any more.
But let me use a specific example
- Brandon Alexander was a very highly regarded DE who was heavily recruited. However he never did a thing as a DE and eventually was moved to TE where, now, as a senior, he's not even on the depth chart
- Julien Obioha was basically unrecruited with few if any P5 offers
They were both recruited as DEs. They are both now seniors and never got into any trouble. So why did the lightly recruited guy become a 4-year starter and the highly regarded recruit basically never play? It wasn't athletic ability I can assure you of that. So what was it? And can we bottle that and use it in our evals? That's what they set out to do.
They came up with things like self-motivation and coachability. I'm not sure the others. But the point was simply to pick out more Obiohas and fewer Alexanders. That doesn't mean the Alexander won't turn out or the Obioha will, but give me 25 guys with JO's or Malcome Kennedy's or Mike Evan's characteristics and you're going to get full value from like 24 of them. In a world where something like only 60% of all HS signees ever letter, changing that equation can pay pretty serious dividends.
But let me use a specific example
- Brandon Alexander was a very highly regarded DE who was heavily recruited. However he never did a thing as a DE and eventually was moved to TE where, now, as a senior, he's not even on the depth chart
- Julien Obioha was basically unrecruited with few if any P5 offers
They were both recruited as DEs. They are both now seniors and never got into any trouble. So why did the lightly recruited guy become a 4-year starter and the highly regarded recruit basically never play? It wasn't athletic ability I can assure you of that. So what was it? And can we bottle that and use it in our evals? That's what they set out to do.
They came up with things like self-motivation and coachability. I'm not sure the others. But the point was simply to pick out more Obiohas and fewer Alexanders. That doesn't mean the Alexander won't turn out or the Obioha will, but give me 25 guys with JO's or Malcome Kennedy's or Mike Evan's characteristics and you're going to get full value from like 24 of them. In a world where something like only 60% of all HS signees ever letter, changing that equation can pay pretty serious dividends.
This post was edited on 9/2/15 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 9/2/15 at 4:31 pm to tmc94
quote:
changing that equation can pay pretty serious dividends.
I could see that, especially if it helps you find underrated or less recruited guys. Some coaches just seem to have an eye for underrated talent, it would be cool to make it into some sort of formula.
Heck success with big recruits is cool, but honestly even flop big recruits still have the benefit of creating recruiting buzz and momentum for the program. It is the lower rated guys you strike out on that become the dead weight for a team, unless you are going to process players Nick Saban-style.
Heck I have always said if I was ever running a major program (like not just P5 but elite P5) I would admit my limits and find other coaches who are great at finding hidden talent (like Pinkel or Dantonio) and steal all the guys they offer from underneath them.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 4:32 pm to tmc94
I'm all for better player evaluations after the 2013 class. 
Posted on 9/3/15 at 3:58 am to PhilipMarlowe
The 2013 team is quickly becoming "VORE" 
Posted on 9/3/15 at 4:21 am to tmc94
quote:
But the point was simply to pick out more Obiohas and fewer Alexanders.
Seems like this fits many of the recent commits we've taken. I've always appreciated the Obiohas the most, so a team full of them to yell for will be outstanding
Posted on 9/4/15 at 1:10 pm to Howdyagssec
ICYMI yesterday Sumlin made a stop in to see LB Jeffrey McCulloch
Here is Taylor Hamm's interview with him after the game. He's pretty impressive and at least based on this interview, he really comes across as that Obioha type
Here is Taylor Hamm's interview with him after the game. He's pretty impressive and at least based on this interview, he really comes across as that Obioha type
Posted on 9/4/15 at 1:28 pm to tmc94
End of summer recruiting update. I probably am missing a guy somewhere but this is mostly our board at this point
QB - none
I know we're still staying in contact with a few guys but as of now, we have no plans to take a QB this year. I doubt that changes but in case of catastrophe, we're keeping tabs on a few guys still.
RB - Boyd, Whaley, Speights
With Boyd in the fold as well as Ford as a transfer, the RB spot is one we might close shop. However, we really like Speights and Whaley so we'll continue recruiting them. The Bradford situation leaves us where we aren't sure if we need to push just yet. If we miss on those 2, I doubt we reach but we'd like 5 scholarship guys.
WR - Davis, Rogers, NKeal Harry (AZ), Cleveland, Leflore-Chriss, Drake Davis (FL)
The 6'3" Davis is actually being recruited as an inside guy to get an idea how AMo is changing the WR profile. But his ability to run like a sub 6' guy makes this an interesting proposition. Even as a newly composite 4* he's massively underrated. He may be the best on this list and it's an elite list. At 6'5" Rogers is an even bigger guy who'll play outside. The four guys we're still actively recruiting are all elite so I'm not sure how you'd turn any away.
TE - Smith, Holcombe
We're done here and giddy with these two.
OL - Austin Anderson, Riley Anderson, Prater, Little, Delance, Diesch
We got hammered on the 13/14 HS classes here as several guys retired due to injuries and another, Gustaffson, has been injured way too often. It's left the pipeline a bit thin but apparently the '15 class has excelled. Before fall camp started, I think we were still looking to take 5 but the fish were good enough that we will probably only take 4 again. But if things change, this is one spot we may make new offers at late. I think the fact that McCoy appears to be a home run has made us comfortable that we can do that again. OL recruiting can be weird because while you can see the elite athletes, projecting between the good is very difficult.
DE - Jackson, Robinson, Madubuike, Chambers, Betiku (CA), Hall (DC)
I'm not convinced Madubuike projects to DE but for now let's put him there. We'd probably take all of these if we could because they are all elite. Sure we'd love Agim or Gooden too but it appears we're on the outside looking in for both. Betiku is a UCLA commit but he's scheduled for an official. I wouldn't get my hopes up but anyone who makes an OV I wouldn't rule out either. Hall is in the same boat but he's uncommitted. I have a hard time seeing us pull from DC but you never know. We're actively recruiting both. Don't sleep on Jackson or Robinson though as we feel they are the two best in-state speed rushers.
DT - Daniels, Blacklock
In a bit of an odd twist, it appears Keke is going to play this year. His progression through camp has been great as he's been extremely coachable. He's not playing because we need him but because he's just ready. Need to keep that pipeline stocked and two guys we absolutely love are Daniels and Blacklock. This isn't a must position because Washington, Mack and Keke are all FR so if we miss I doubt we reach but we love these two and a couple of "higher rated" guys we haven't recruited very hard. Daniels just released his top 5 today. With DTs you always wonder about qualification (I'm not sure the reason for correlation but it definitely exists). But I think there are other factors at play with a few of them. Call it the Brandon Alexander effect if you will as you don't want to spend a lot of time recruiting kids your DC calls "big and pretty" but who aren't actually good at football.
LB - Dodson (TN), Divinity (LA), McCulloch
The fact that we've zeroed in on these 3 should tell you a lot. All 3 are exciting prospects who can be game changers. Taking the copter to see McCulloch tells you all you need to know about how high we value him. But beyond these 3, the fact that we aren't recruiting just bodies tells you how they feel about the guys on campus. We don't have any seniors, sure. But if we were concerned about depth, we'd be pushing for more. Instead we're shooting for the moon with these 3 when most would say we are pretty big underdogs to land either of the uncommitted guys. The only other guy I can even think of that we're keeping in touch with is TCU commit Olonilua.
DB - Fuller, Oliver, Jones, Cuffee, Murphy (AZ), Anderson, Jack Jones (CA), Fulton (LA), Monroe, Williams (LA)
I lumped them all together because we're looking at a lot of hybrid guys that could play either CB or S. I think we're going to end up with 5 or so here. With the camp emergence of Harvey and the presence of Priest Willis, along with the steady play of Ellis at nickel, the immediate concern for next year appears to be alleviated. My guess is if we feel uncomfortable with our situation, come November we'll start hearing JUCO names. But Fuller and Oliver are a great start and the exact kind of athlete Chavis likes at DB. We seem to be in pretty good shape with a number of these guys though I doubt we flip either of the LSU commits. A sign things aren't going well will be if we offer next tier guys like Eboh or Cobb. But I don't think it will come to that.
K - Mann
We got our guy
QB - none
I know we're still staying in contact with a few guys but as of now, we have no plans to take a QB this year. I doubt that changes but in case of catastrophe, we're keeping tabs on a few guys still.
RB - Boyd, Whaley, Speights
With Boyd in the fold as well as Ford as a transfer, the RB spot is one we might close shop. However, we really like Speights and Whaley so we'll continue recruiting them. The Bradford situation leaves us where we aren't sure if we need to push just yet. If we miss on those 2, I doubt we reach but we'd like 5 scholarship guys.
WR - Davis, Rogers, NKeal Harry (AZ), Cleveland, Leflore-Chriss, Drake Davis (FL)
The 6'3" Davis is actually being recruited as an inside guy to get an idea how AMo is changing the WR profile. But his ability to run like a sub 6' guy makes this an interesting proposition. Even as a newly composite 4* he's massively underrated. He may be the best on this list and it's an elite list. At 6'5" Rogers is an even bigger guy who'll play outside. The four guys we're still actively recruiting are all elite so I'm not sure how you'd turn any away.
TE - Smith, Holcombe
We're done here and giddy with these two.
OL - Austin Anderson, Riley Anderson, Prater, Little, Delance, Diesch
We got hammered on the 13/14 HS classes here as several guys retired due to injuries and another, Gustaffson, has been injured way too often. It's left the pipeline a bit thin but apparently the '15 class has excelled. Before fall camp started, I think we were still looking to take 5 but the fish were good enough that we will probably only take 4 again. But if things change, this is one spot we may make new offers at late. I think the fact that McCoy appears to be a home run has made us comfortable that we can do that again. OL recruiting can be weird because while you can see the elite athletes, projecting between the good is very difficult.
DE - Jackson, Robinson, Madubuike, Chambers, Betiku (CA), Hall (DC)
I'm not convinced Madubuike projects to DE but for now let's put him there. We'd probably take all of these if we could because they are all elite. Sure we'd love Agim or Gooden too but it appears we're on the outside looking in for both. Betiku is a UCLA commit but he's scheduled for an official. I wouldn't get my hopes up but anyone who makes an OV I wouldn't rule out either. Hall is in the same boat but he's uncommitted. I have a hard time seeing us pull from DC but you never know. We're actively recruiting both. Don't sleep on Jackson or Robinson though as we feel they are the two best in-state speed rushers.
DT - Daniels, Blacklock
In a bit of an odd twist, it appears Keke is going to play this year. His progression through camp has been great as he's been extremely coachable. He's not playing because we need him but because he's just ready. Need to keep that pipeline stocked and two guys we absolutely love are Daniels and Blacklock. This isn't a must position because Washington, Mack and Keke are all FR so if we miss I doubt we reach but we love these two and a couple of "higher rated" guys we haven't recruited very hard. Daniels just released his top 5 today. With DTs you always wonder about qualification (I'm not sure the reason for correlation but it definitely exists). But I think there are other factors at play with a few of them. Call it the Brandon Alexander effect if you will as you don't want to spend a lot of time recruiting kids your DC calls "big and pretty" but who aren't actually good at football.
LB - Dodson (TN), Divinity (LA), McCulloch
The fact that we've zeroed in on these 3 should tell you a lot. All 3 are exciting prospects who can be game changers. Taking the copter to see McCulloch tells you all you need to know about how high we value him. But beyond these 3, the fact that we aren't recruiting just bodies tells you how they feel about the guys on campus. We don't have any seniors, sure. But if we were concerned about depth, we'd be pushing for more. Instead we're shooting for the moon with these 3 when most would say we are pretty big underdogs to land either of the uncommitted guys. The only other guy I can even think of that we're keeping in touch with is TCU commit Olonilua.
DB - Fuller, Oliver, Jones, Cuffee, Murphy (AZ), Anderson, Jack Jones (CA), Fulton (LA), Monroe, Williams (LA)
I lumped them all together because we're looking at a lot of hybrid guys that could play either CB or S. I think we're going to end up with 5 or so here. With the camp emergence of Harvey and the presence of Priest Willis, along with the steady play of Ellis at nickel, the immediate concern for next year appears to be alleviated. My guess is if we feel uncomfortable with our situation, come November we'll start hearing JUCO names. But Fuller and Oliver are a great start and the exact kind of athlete Chavis likes at DB. We seem to be in pretty good shape with a number of these guys though I doubt we flip either of the LSU commits. A sign things aren't going well will be if we offer next tier guys like Eboh or Cobb. But I don't think it will come to that.
K - Mann
We got our guy
Posted on 9/4/15 at 1:55 pm to tmc94
Are any recruits attending tomorrow ?
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:20 pm to Old Sarge
Thats a pretty excellent analysis on who we are (and should be) going after. The Drake Davis insert is a suprise.....its been thrown around that we are recruiting him but, not sure how serious we are with him. DT is not a a critical need but to play in the SEC you always need mass depth on your lines and its possible we may miss on both Daniels and Blacklock although I don't personally think we do. A lot of people are thinking we lose Rogers to TCU eventually as well. And that would suck because hes a freak of nature of an athlete. Raw, and virtually unknown because he plays for a small school but again not a position of need.
Good job with the summary, dude..
Good job with the summary, dude..
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:21 pm to Old Sarge
quote:
Are any recruits attending tomorrow ?
A few of our commits and a lot of high priority 2017 guys are expected.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:27 pm to dead money
Just saw this list
2016
Manvel S Deontay Anderson
Westfield WR Tyrie Cleveland
Summer Creek TE Zarrian Holcombe (maybe)
Westfield QB Dillon Sterling-Cole
Langham Creek WR Quartney Davis
Kingwood ATH Sewo Olonilua (maybe)
Cy Fair K Braden Mann
Stratford RB Rakeem Boyd
Stratford LB Jordyn Brooks
North Shore DB Eric Monroe (maybe)
2017
George Ranch DB Adam Beck
La Grange RB J.K. Dobbins
Episcopal DT Marvin Wilson
Episcopal OL Walker Little
Langham Creek RB Toneil Carter
Cy Creek OL Grayson Reed
Bellaire DE Alexander Duke
Crosby DB Taylor Perry
Crosby WR Mannie Netherly
2018
Katy Taylor DE Max Wright
Elkins OL Luke Matthews
Crosby RB Craig Williams
2016
Manvel S Deontay Anderson
Westfield WR Tyrie Cleveland
Summer Creek TE Zarrian Holcombe (maybe)
Westfield QB Dillon Sterling-Cole
Langham Creek WR Quartney Davis
Kingwood ATH Sewo Olonilua (maybe)
Cy Fair K Braden Mann
Stratford RB Rakeem Boyd
Stratford LB Jordyn Brooks
North Shore DB Eric Monroe (maybe)
2017
George Ranch DB Adam Beck
La Grange RB J.K. Dobbins
Episcopal DT Marvin Wilson
Episcopal OL Walker Little
Langham Creek RB Toneil Carter
Cy Creek OL Grayson Reed
Bellaire DE Alexander Duke
Crosby DB Taylor Perry
Crosby WR Mannie Netherly
2018
Katy Taylor DE Max Wright
Elkins OL Luke Matthews
Crosby RB Craig Williams
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:30 pm to tmc94
As always you are the man 
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:32 pm to tmc94
Thanks TMC great recap!
great recap!
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:38 pm to tmc94
If DSC pulled the trigger for us at QB, would we take it or are we generally closed?
Also, thanks for the analysis
Also, thanks for the analysis
Posted on 9/4/15 at 2:49 pm to dead money
quote:
The Drake Davis insert is a suprise
It would be surprising because no one is talking about him but he and AMo talk virtually every day
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