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Thatawesomeguy4
Tennessee Fan
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Member since Jul 2015
610 posts

The team was completely unprepared
And that is all on coaching...

Everything says fire Butch.

Got anything to say now oleyeller?


DoUrden
Navy Fan
UnderDark
Member since Oct 2011
20140 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
I am not sure how it could have looked worse today, this team is not THIS bad. I think the outside noise got to the coaches in a big way.


VolInBavaria
Tennessee Fan
Chattanooga, TN
Member since Dec 2015
2450 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
That was the worst game I've seen Tennessee play under Butch. This is one of the most poorly coached teams I've seen


Wishnitwas1998
Tennessee Fan
Walls, Ms
Member since Oct 2010
33545 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
Under Butch? It's one of the worst I've seen us play ever and i can remember back to 97

It's not the worst but without thinking about its bottom 5


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Wishnitwas1998
Tennessee Fan
Walls, Ms
Member since Oct 2010
33545 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
quote:

I think the outside noise got to the coaches in a big way.



And if it did that reflects poorly on them


We also EASILY could've lost last week so it's not just one week either


Not aiming this at you just at anyone who might try, how could one possibly defend Butch at this point?


DoUrden
Navy Fan
UnderDark
Member since Oct 2011
20140 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
Oh I have been on the train after last year, he stabilized the program but it time to change before he reverses what he has done. I can't imagine recruiting is going to look very good the way this year is going, but we CANNOT afford another botched hire at this point.


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10
David Ricky
Alabama Fan
Hailing From Parts Unknown
Member since Sep 2015
9270 posts
 Online 

re: The team was completely unprepared
Lol cannot wait to see what oleRED has to say about Botch now


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61
meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
3278 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
I wouldn't fire him based off of this season.

You turned over a lot of talent the past 2 seasons. This happens to a lot of teams.

Can he rebuild or is he done?
Is it worth rebuilding with what you think his best teams will be?


Thatawesomeguy4
Tennessee Fan
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Member since Jul 2015
610 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
The issue is that our players show no improvement. Butch is incapable of teaching these kids so he has to go.







Also, I hate him personally


meansonny
Georgia Fan
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
3278 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
quote:

The issue is that our players show no improvement


That was our issue with Grantham. Couldn't develop (and only recruited one position).

If that is the problem, then I agree.


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Wishnitwas1998
Tennessee Fan
Walls, Ms
Member since Oct 2010
33545 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
quote:

I wouldn't fire him based off of this season. You turned over a lot of talent the past 2 seasons. This happens to a lot of teams. ?


So this is how I've tried to explain it to those who legitimately ask these things in other cases: If you just looked on paper record wise you'd prolly think we were morons for wanting butch gone so bad but you have to look at HOW we have lost the games we have lost, how he has mismanaged them, and as others have said how our talent never improves and butch refuses to adapt

I could go on and on but I'll try to keep it as short as possible

-before 2014 (Butch's second year) everything was mostly gravy. Yes he tried running his read option offense with Worley (a QB who couldn't run and NEVER did) but he was given the benefit of the doubt bc he hadn't had time to get HIS players in the program and bc thanks to our old buddy Derek the offensive line was in total shambles

-the first true bad sign was the 10-9 lost to Florida where we were up 9-0 in the 4th in Knoxville and blew it to a backup scrambling QB that the team just couldn't adjust to. Minor issue but one that we felt could be managed especially as the staff gained experience and the program as a whole improved. Little did we know what a harbinger of things to come it would be

-2015 comes and the hype is beginning to build coming off a 7-6 season with Dobbs and Hurd fully installed as starters.

This is the year with several inexcusably blown second half leads against Oklahoma and Florida (infamous 2 point conversion chart) and I believe blew a smaller lead vs Arkansas. In an effort to keep this short in the process of blowing these games many, many questionable decisions were made, players continued to not develop into what they were supposed to be, and the stafff continued to refuse to adjust.

Also, games later in the season such as those vs USC and Mizzou were perceived to have been much closer than they should have

--then we get to 2016, a team ranked in the preseason top 10 or close to it IIRC and Jones admitted himself was his best team. We were amazingly lucky not to lose to Appalachian State in OT in the first game of the year, followed that up by coming out very slow against VT but did end up winning easily, struggled greatly against Ohio then a date with Florida came

We came out very poorly against Florida trailing 24-3 at half but the team stormed back to win the game in what may have been Butch's greatest time as our head coach. Still problems existed, players failed to develop, and injuries mounted as we headed for Athens

UGA last team was seen as a team that we should have beaten and if not for a already well documented Hail Mary we wouldn't have. Much of the fan base felt we weren't using Dobbs's athleticism to our best advantage for whatever reason and injuries continued to mount

Then we played TAMU in a game that while we didn't win, considering then injuries I think most were ok with as it went to OT and the staff as I recall performed pretty well

Next it was a game vs Bama in Knoxville where we got absolutely crushed but again, most let Butch off the hook due to injuries and if the team could take advantage of the weaker last half of its schedule and even only lose 1 game we would win the east and be in a position for a sugar bowl berth

That's when the wheels fell off.

Right around here is when several players including Jalen Hurd and Preston Williams either quit or were kicked off the team. This was interpreted as very poor leadership by Jones to prevent the situations from escalating (little did we know losing Hurd likely helped the offense but that also exposed more of the staff's errors)

we lost to USCe who had a freshman QB who literally should've been playing in high school absolutely torch us and then to seal the deal, blew a game to Vandy that there was absolutely no excuse for losing



Finally, we get to this year where this man has all of his own players that are projected to be of very high talent and the team is a mess

He inexplicably has recruited a pocket passer (that doesn't seem to be very good) for the read option offense he refuses to stray from and it has created as seen today a virtually non existent offense other than John Kelly who I suspect as we play stronger conference teams will be shutdown like today as we are too one deminsional

Over the offseason he hired a WR coach that literally ONLY recruits and a GA coaches the receivers. It shows, they are awful

This is all compounded by him repeatedly refusing to take responsibility for the losses and on multiple occasions doing things that make it seem like he's throwing the players under the bus such as not facing the media after the Vandy loss last year while the players are forced to go out and face the music. He has told the media blatant lies that can easily be disproven such as earlier this year when he claimed our dline has always lined up one yard off the ball when any quick YouTube search can show you no other example than this year of that happening

He claimed after the Florida Hail Mary this year that we weren't in a dime Defense bc we didn't have another healthy DB on the sideline except there was at least one in Shaq Wiggins sitting over there. Some say he claimed we were in a nickle when we were in fact in a dime and that he apparently doesn't even know the difference or at least didn't know what we were in for the most important play of the game though I have no proof of that last part

He has made blunders of all kinds that can't all be explained but many suspect if it weren't for the athleticism of Josh Dobbs the man may have already hit the unemployment line before this year


Simply put, the man has rebuilt the program and deserves credit for that but he cannot take us to the next level and if he sticks around things are likely to get even worse. He is in over his head IMO


Sorry for the book, that was all off the top of my head and there may be a minor error or two as I am not gonna take the time to review it but just felt like doing it. It was almost thereuputic


Buster180
Tennessee Fan
Member since Jun 2017
373 posts
 Online 

re: The team was completely unprepared
Nice summary of the Butch Jones era. The read option is absolutely maddening.

I was really expecting some trick plays, or new formations. I think Butch has mailed it in this year.

He has somehow made Trevor Daniel suck .

I thought our defense played fine given the hand they were dealt. They were on the field all game and had to play on a 50 yard field most possessions.

Crowd showed good support up until the 3rd quarter. There was some booing as expected, and fans started to pour out with 10 mins left. Stadium was completely empty with 5 mins left.

I found myself wishing we would win, but this loss was what the program needed. This season is setting up very well for the upcoming coaching search.


Thatawesomeguy4
Tennessee Fan
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Member since Jul 2015
610 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
Oh cool, someone gifed Butch from the sidelines today



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Wishnitwas1998
Tennessee Fan
Walls, Ms
Member since Oct 2010
33545 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
quote:

He has somehow made Trevor Daniel suck . I thought our defense played fine given the hand they were dealt. They were on the field all game and had to play on a 50 yard field most


1. Daniel has been strange and I have no idea what's going on, was great the first 2 games and has been meh to awful since

2. The D is prolly the bright spot of this team, I think they've really done well considering the positions they are constantly placed in


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fibonaccisquared
Georgia Fan
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
6369 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
Was having this discussion with my wife today (she's a classy gal... she wears that shade of pumpkin that you guys love so much and forces my child to wear it occasionally. ). She's a sweet woman, and loves college football but not quite as into the details, so she wanted to hear my opinion (not on where we should eat dinner of course... but on your coaching situation).

Here's the way I see it:

Firing Butch Jones in 2017 is not really a reflection on the 2017 results - which have not been good - but rather a late indictment on the results of 2016 and an acknowledgement of several pretty significant shortcomings proven over the 2015 and 2016 seasons that don't seem to have a great degree of hope of improving going forward either. I won't go through the game specifics as 98 has laid out the history pretty well, but I see the late game collapses in 15 as a pretty good sign of who you have as a head coach... failure to get "up" for weaker opponents like App State in game 1 of the season, followed by UMass this year... that combination is lethal. If you can't keep a team focused enough during the week to properly prepare for an unmatched opponent, and your in-game management is insufficient to help keep the team focused when holding a significant lead, it means that the coaches are not really leading the team to begin with... the game situation has kept them focused in close games or in situations where a come from behind was needed.

Ultimately, I agree that it's likely the correct move to fire Butch - IF - and it's a big IF - there is already a good idea of who you plan to bring in. Firing Butch mid-season without having some semblance of who is "your guy" that you have a legit shot at as well as "your safety net" who you know wouldn't turn you down if you offered it... *THAT* has a chance to blow up in Currie's face. The flip side of that, is what happens if you leave him in the role and he somehow pulls 48 million rabbits feet right out of his a-hole and you beat Bama? Can you fire him then? Probably not. What if it's ultra competitive, and he wins every other game by increasingly convincing margins and the QB play starts to improve? It likely becomes a tougher call... If I'm looking at the talent on the roster, without having an inside scoop, it sure seems like QB play is pretty awful. Dormady I saw in person at the Tech game and he had an atrocious first half before playing a really efficient second half from what I recall... Since then, it's been more of that first half style performance than the second. Guantanamo Bay doesn't look ready for prime time. For Butch to continue to trot out the read option with those two and make it look so inauthentic is criminal... Adjust to what your talent can do FFS!? Where is all the talent from 4 straight top 15 recruiting classes (2 of which were top 5)!?

The shitty part for UT, and honestly every SEC school right now... you essentially have to be OK with taking 2nd place in the SEC as a "win" from a coaching hire perspective. If you somehow manage to unseat the greatest college coach of all time... great, but it can't be the expectation heaped onto the coach. UT of course suffers doubly there with that team as their permanent west rival. That severely limits the appeal of the job, even though UT is likely a top 15ish job. It's a top 15 job with probably closer to 25-ish baggage or worse until Saban is gone.

I'd love to see legitimate discussion on who you guys feel are credible candidates for the coaching job. My thoughts on a few of the ones I see posted/discussed often:

Gruden: Passed on 6M/year previously... Now making 6.5M at ESPN with no W/L record to worry about. Seems to be enjoying the gig. I'm not sure doubling the salary would be enough to pull him away. Seems to be one of those guys who will string you along unless he's worried that the ESPN gravy train is ending soon (#cordcutters).

Kelly: I just don't see it. Guy has one hell of an ego, but I also think he's likely learned a bit of a lesson to go where and with what he knows. I see him most likely taking an opening in the Pac12/BigXII if there is a decent opportunity, even if it's maybe a slightly worse job. Certainly could be wrong, but just think he'd be a long shot

Peyton: My wife's personal favorite... He's outright said he doesn't want to take a HC job, for all the reasons you'd expect. He's a beloved figure... can literally do no wrong to the UT faithful. Taking the HC job and all that is in the rearview. "What have you done for me lately" is just the culture we live in. Maybe someone can convince him, but he's got an awful lot to "lose". Also, he's never "coached" before. One might argue he was essentially OC for several years in the NFL though so maybe a bit of a pass on that criteria.

I dunno who else the "elite" options are, so maybe you guys can fill me in so I can update her. :)

As to the "less reachy" but potentially real options, here were some guys that came to mind over the last couple of days:

Current HCs:

Mike Leach - He's quirky... not sure he can make it work against SEC defenses with any regularity... but the guy is a damn offensive genius. If you think you can couple him with a lights out DC, could be interesting.

Gary Patterson - People in the game thread keep poo pooing this one, but I really feel like if TCU gets overlooked again this year with a pretty good season, he might get fed up enough to bail. Probably have to pay him a shite ton, but the man can coach.

Frank Wilson - Maybe a bit of a reach, but he has UTSA looking good, he was an elite recruiter at LSU with Miles... Maybe the Nawlins connection could land him Peyton as an OC or at least QB coach?!

Scott Frost - If it's this year, I think it's a reach. If you hold on to Butch through this season and wait until next year, he might be a take. He was Kelly's right hand man at Oregon and has UCF looking like they would probably give UF all they want and then some. Have to think if he can recruit 4* kids to Orlando, he would do well on the recruiting front at an SEC program.

Chad Morris - Another "way too soon" probably, but his work at Clemson was incredible, even if he is slow getting the train going at SMU.

Mike Bobo - Stay away... don't want to have to hate him.

Can't take credit for this one, but what about Troy Calhoun at Air Force? Has averaged over 9 wins per season at Air Force and renewed DOD policy to force 2 years of service immediately upon graduation means NFL delayed... could be the right time to try and poach him, and he's got NFL OC experience.


If it's *not* a current HC...

Not going to go through analysis, but immediate thoughts:

Tee Martin - duh
Joe Moorhead - PSU OC
Brent Venables - Clemson DC... I might have him higher than many of the above HCs honestly
Jeremy Pruitt - duh
Alex Grinch - Washington State (previously DB coach at Mizzou I think?)

On the upside, as you guys have noted elsewhere... you are likely at worst a top 2-3 job available, and in all likelihood the best job available from a prestige standpoint... Biggest question is who feels ready to take on the baggage.


ETA: I left out NFL coaches as I really don't have a read on that one. I hear Jim Bob Cooter a lot as a possible name to watch... no clue if there is anyone else out there that might be a legitimate option. Fill me in Vols.
This post was edited on 10/1 at 3:15 am


Egotestical
Tennessee Fan
Member since Jan 2013
13 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
quote:

I wouldn't fire him based off of this season.

you're right. You fire him off the aggregate. You stupid piece of shite.


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Prof
Tennessee Fan
Member since Jun 2013
22381 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
They have no discipline. Same as last year. I don't know what happened between 2015 and the present but the lack of player leadership, discipline, and effort is astounding.


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Wishnitwas1998
Tennessee Fan
Walls, Ms
Member since Oct 2010
33545 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
quote:

down if you offered it... *THAT* has a chance to blow up in Currie's face. The flip side of that, is what happens if you leave him in the role and he somehow pulls 48 million rabbits feet right out of his a-hole and you beat Bama? Can you fire him then? Probably not. What if it's ultra competitive, and he wins every other game by increasingly convincing margins and the QB play starts to improve? It likely becomes a tougher call..



From watching this team and staff this is just so incredibly unlikely that I'm not at all concerned about it. Butch is just gonna dig his grave even deeper. I'm predicting 2 losses out of USCe/KY/Vandy







As far as replacements,

Gruden: unlikely pipe dream. It is possible but I don't think our admin will cave to the level of control Gruden wants

Kelly: not only is it unlikely but I am not really interested in him personally. He'd do as good if not better than Butch but i don't think he'd be great in this conference

Peyton: fantasy land. IF Peyton ever got into coaching, and I think that's a BIg If, he will go the assistant route first. He might jump right to OC but I really doubt it as he's a prettt smart guy and will want to start from the bottom. All that said I don't think he will ever coach at this point

Leach: Leach is a cool guy but I don't think our admin is gonna be interested in his kind of wildcard style plus I'm not all that interested in him. Similar issues as Kelly as far as on the field

Patterson: would love to have him and I'm sure the admin would as well but I like everyone else am skeptical of him ever leaving TCU at this point. Supposedly we tried with him before and it didn't work out for whatever reason

Wilson: don't know a lot about him but if the first few realistic candidates don't work out he'd probably be in the running

Frost: same situation as Wilson

Morris: not real interested

Calhoun: not the worst idea, fan base wouldn't be pleased though

Tee Martin: just don't think he's quite ready, would love having him as OC

Moorehead: good track record, again fan base may be upset

Venebles: my favorite pick out of all the "lower tier" guy's. Just love his style and would love a D guy. Also think the fan base would be ok with it

Been a lot of talk about Fuente but I don't think he would take the job tbh. Mumbling about Miles, I'm not interested.

Mullen would be an OK hire but I'm also not sure he'd take the job either. MSU is paying big time money now and he can hold that job forever if he just keeps doing what he's doing

Fleck: this is a guy that's really got my attention, I'd be really interested in giving him a shot and I think he'd take the job





Important thing to remember is after the very obscure hire of Dooley and somewhat obscure hire of Jones this fan base is tired of what they consider "no name coaches". Idk how they will do it but the admin is going to have to figure out how to balance notoriety with best fit somehow or this hire will be met with a collective sigh and rumblings from the start

Like most fan bases, ours has very unrealistic expectations and doesn't even realize that a lot of times the biggest name isn't the best idea (such as Kelly) so that will have an effect on any potential Search

ETA: I left off Cooter. Not sure how to feel about that one, I'm fairly weary of it but we will just have to see how it all shakes out
This post was edited on 10/1 at 10:18 am


Porter Osborne Jr
Georgia Fan
Member since Sep 2012
22986 posts

re: The team was completely unprepared
What about the Troy coach, Brown?


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