Started By
Message
1
Posted on 2/22/17 at 10:26 pm to TideSaint
quote:
My original point still stands. Saying LSU develops DBs better than Alabama is laughable. The stats, and awards, don't lie.
How so?
Two of ours have been up for Heismans in the past. Including one NY invite.
The difference comes after the month of November. Alabama has been in the spotlight and NC run more times than LSU has as of late. Therefore you tend to benefit from more rewards. It's no secret more wins = more individual and team awards.
Two Bendariks, and two Thorpes in a row. That speaks volumes.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 10:36 pm to memphisplaya
LINK
This article makes me sad (because I believe Chad Jones would be top 3 had he not suffered unfortunate circumstances).
But if you are gonna say things like "besides patrick peterson" you have to take away bamas best defensive back and compare the rest of the backs from both sides.
This article makes me sad (because I believe Chad Jones would be top 3 had he not suffered unfortunate circumstances).
But if you are gonna say things like "besides patrick peterson" you have to take away bamas best defensive back and compare the rest of the backs from both sides.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 11:54 pm to Blanky6715
So take away Peterson and Collins.
Alabama and LSU have the same number of All-Pro DBs over the last five years.
One a piece.
Alabama and LSU have the same number of All-Pro DBs over the last five years.
One a piece.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 11:56 pm to memphisplaya
quote:
How so?
Two of ours have been up for Heismans in the past. Including one NY invite.
The difference comes after the month of November. Alabama has been in the spotlight and NC run more times than LSU has as of late. Therefore you tend to benefit from more rewards. It's no secret more wins = more individual and team awards.
Two Bendariks, and two Thorpes in a row. That speaks volumes.
AJ McCarron won the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award the same year Jameis Winston won the Heisman and the national title.
Individual awards are chosen by their own committees.
Posted on 2/22/17 at 11:59 pm to Blanky6715
quote:
You are talking about one year, how many pro bowlers appearances has bama had the past 5 years comparatively with lsu?
Two. Same as LSU.
Peterson and Matthieu for you.
Collins and Clinton-Dix for us.
Yes, Peterson has more appearances than anyone, but he's been in the league longer than Collins and HCD combined.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 6:50 am to TideSaint
Wrong. 4. Eric Reid in 2014. Laron Landry in 2012.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 6:54 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 6:52 am to TideSaint
quote:
Alabama and LSU have the same number of All-Pro DBs over the last five years.
One a piece.
Same all pro's but LSU has more pro bowlers. You are including only the stats that fit your agenda.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 6:55 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 7:52 am to Blanky6715
LOL, that's gold.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 8:42 am to Blanky6715
quote:
You are including only the stats that fit your agenda.
Do you know who made the Pro-Bowl this year?
Pro Bowl appearances are a joke. First off, the two best teams in the league don't send anyone to the game because it is played before the Super Bowl.
Secondly, over half of the players voted in don't participate which opens the door for guys who really don't deserve it.
Here are the replacements for this year alone:
quote:
AFC Replacements
Quarterback: Alex Smith, Chiefs, for Derek Carr (injured); Andy Dalton, Bengals, for Tom Brady (Super Bowl)
Running back: Jay Ajayi, Dolphins, for LeSean McCoy (injured); Melvin Gordon, Chargers, for Le'Veon Bell (injured)
Center: Jeremy Zuttah, Ravens, for Maurkice Pouncey (injured)
Linebacker: Zach Brown, Bills, for Dont'a Hightower (Super Bowl); Ryan Shazier, Steelers, for C.J. Mosley (injured)
Guard: Richie Incognito, Bills, for Marshal Yanda (injured)
Center: Eric Wood, Bills, for Ryan Kalil (injured)
Tackle: Andrew Whitworth, Bengals, for Donald Penn (injured)
Wide receiver: Emmanuel Sanders, Broncos, for Amari Cooper (injured); Jarvis Landry, Dolphins, for A.J. Green (injured); Demaryius Thomas, Broncos, for Antonio Brown (injured)
Defense end: Carlos Dunlap, Bengals, for Jadeveon Clowney (injured); Leonard Williams, Jets, for Khalil Mack (injured)
Cornerback: Stephon Gilmore, Bills, for Marcus Peters (injured)
Strong safety: Darian Stewart, Broncos, for Eric Berry (injured)
Free safety: Eric Weddle, Ravens, for Devin McCourty (Super Bowl)
Punter: Dustin Colquitt, Chiefs, for Pat McAfee (injured)
Special teamer: D.J. Alexander, Chiefs, for Matthew Slater (Super Bowl)
quote:
NFC Replacements
Tight end: Jimmy Graham, Seahawks, for Jordan Reed (injured)
Running back: Jordan Howard, Bears, for David Johnson (injured); Darren Sproles, Eagles, for Devonta Freeman (Super Bowl)
Quarterback: Kirk Cousins, Redskins, for Aaron Rodgers; Drew Brees, Saints, for Matt Ryan (Super Bowl)
Offensive tackle: David Bakhtiari, Packers for Jason Peters (injured)
Guard: Trai Turner, Panthers, for Brandon Scherff (injured); Josh Sitton, Bears, for T.J. Lang (injured)
Center: Jason Kelce, Eagles, for Alex Mack (Super Bowl)
Wide receiver: Dez Bryant, Cowboys, for Julio Jones (Super Bowl)
Outside linebacker: K.J. Wright, Seahawks, for Ryan Kerrigan (injured); Anthony Barr, Vikings, for Vic Beasley (Super Bowl)
Inside/middle linebacker: Sean Lee, Cowboys, for Luke Kuechly (injured)
Interior linemen: Linval Joseph, Vikings, for Aaron Donald (injured)
Kicker: Matt Prater, Lions, for Matt Bryant (Super Bowl)
That's 35 replacements. Thirty-five. Being a huge Saints fan I was happy to watch Drew Brees in the game this year. It even lists him as a Pro-Bowler on his Wikipedia page. Was he voted to the Pro-Bowl? No. He subbed in for fricking Matt Ryan.
I'm not saying Reid and Landry didn't deserve to be in there, but it's universally accepted that All-Pro selections are the true indicator of having an elite season.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 8:46 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 9:06 am to cas4t
quote:
considering how much more overall talent Bama has in all positions, that makes LSUs
Wait, hold on, I've read countless post by L6U fans that L6U has had as much if not more overall talent than Bama. The only lacking was coaching, Les was holding them back. Now you are saying Bama has "much more" overall talent than L6U? Seems like double talk.
Posted on 2/23/17 at 9:16 am to TideSaint
So let me get this straight. I asked for a comparison, then you give me a wrong comparison. I correct you and now the pro bowl doesn't matter. It wasn't an issue when you thought we were even but now that we have double what you thought we had you change your narrative. Gimme a friggin break dude, They don't just let anyone into the pro bowl, you have to have a good season.
Eric Reids stats his pro bowl year was 77 tackles, 2 Fumble recoveries, 4 interceptions and 11 passes defended. (Pro bowl year was 2013 not 2014 my mistake)
Laron Landry stats his pro bowl year was 100 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, 8 passes defended and 1 touchdown
Those aren't scrub stats
If we are going to go with your logic what does that say about your defensive backs then if they can't even make the pro bowl because apparently it's not a hard feat to accomplish.
Eric Reids stats his pro bowl year was 77 tackles, 2 Fumble recoveries, 4 interceptions and 11 passes defended. (Pro bowl year was 2013 not 2014 my mistake)
Laron Landry stats his pro bowl year was 100 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, 8 passes defended and 1 touchdown
Those aren't scrub stats
If we are going to go with your logic what does that say about your defensive backs then if they can't even make the pro bowl because apparently it's not a hard feat to accomplish.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 9:28 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 9:17 am to spacewrangler
You can have equal talent and not use it to its optimal performance.
Danielle Hunter is a perfect example.
Danielle Hunter is a perfect example.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 9:18 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 9:52 am to Blanky6715
quote:
So let me get this straight. I asked for a comparison, then you give me a wrong comparison. I correct you and now the pro bowl doesn't matter. It wasn't an issue when you thought we were even but now that we have double what you thought we had you change your narrative. Gimme a friggin break dude, They don't just let anyone into the pro bowl, you have to have a good season.
I've been talking All-Pro selections since the beginning. You brought up Pro Bowl appearances. I stuck with the All-Pro selections because they actually hold weight. There's no reason to get pissy about it.
quote:
Eric Reids stats his pro bowl year was 77 tackles, 2 Fumble recoveries, 4 interceptions and 11 passes defended. (Pro bowl year was 2013 not 2014 my mistake)
Laron Landry stats his pro bowl year was 100 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 2 interceptions, 8 passes defended and 1 touchdown
Those are some good stats. I actually even said in my post that Reid and Landry may have deserved to be in the Pro Bowl instead of a replacement.
ETA: I just looked up the 2014 Pro Bowl roster. These were the Safeties that were selected that didn't participate:
quote:
29 Earl Thomas (Seattle Seahawks) [c]
31 Kam Chancellor (Seattle Seahawks) [c]
31 Donte Whitner (San Francisco 49ers) [a][b][36]
43 Troy Polamalu (Pittsburgh Steelers) [b]
35 Eric Reid (San Francisco 49ers) [a][34]
a Replacement selection due to injury or vacancy
b Injured player; selected but did not play
c Selected but did not play because his team advanced to Super Bowl XLVIII
So, it appears Eric Reid was a replacement after all.
quote:
If we are going to go with your logic what does that say about your defensive backs then if they can't even make the pro bowl because apparently it's not a hard feat to accomplish.
Alabama had two All-Pro Safeties last year that did play in the Pro Bowl. Guess what? Their All-Pro selections are still more important.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:02 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 9:58 am to TideSaint
quote:
ETA: I just looked up the 2014 Pro Bowl roster. These were the Safeties that were selected that didn't participate: 29 Earl Thomas (Seattle Seahawks) [c] 31 Kam Chancellor (Seattle Seahawks) [c] 31 Donte Whitner (San Francisco 49ers) [a][b][36] 43 Troy Polamalu (Pittsburgh Steelers) [b] So, it appears Eric Reid was a replacement after all.
I already corrected myself and said it was 2013 not 2014
quote:
Alabama had two All-Pro Safeties last year that did play in the Pro Bowl. Guess what? Their All-Pro selections are still more important.
Guess what? You're still talking about one year and not the past 5 which was my entire point.
Why haven't any alabama defensive backs made the pro bowl consistently the past 5 years even with the ease of being an alternate? Still waiting on that answer. Were there stats those years inferior to the other alternates? Even if the LSU players were alternates does that mean that we have more quality DB's in the NFL than Bama does just based on the fact that their stats were good enough to be considered pro bowl selections?
If LSU has had 2 all pro selections (Although we have more overall selections because of Patrick Peterson but I'll let you have this one) the past 5 years and Bama has had 2 all pro selections the last 5 years, these cancel out. LSU has had 4 pro bowlers the past 5 years and BAMA has had 2 pro bowlers the past 5 years, therefore we are +2.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:10 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:09 am to Blanky6715
quote:
I already corrected myself and said it was 2013 not 2014
The 2014 Pro Bowl correlates to the 2013 season. You had the year right.
quote:
Why haven't any alabama defensive backs made the pro bowl consistently the past 5 years even with the ease of being an alternate? Still waiting on that answer.
You've had one guy CONSISTENTLY make the Pro Bowl over the last 5 years. One.
I mean Mark Barron has never made the Pro Bowl, but lets compare his stats to Eric Reid's in the year Reid made it:
quote:
Barron finished his second season with 88 combined tackles, six pass deflections, two sacks, and two interceptions while starting in 14 games.[19] The Tampa Bay Buccaneers finished their season with a 4-12 record and head coach Greg Schiano was fired after the season.
quote:
However, in his whole rookie season he did not miss a start. He ended his rookie season with 77 tackles, and 4 interceptions. At the end of his terrific rookie season, Reid was elected to the 2014 Pro Bowl.
Not much difference, huh?
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:11 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:11 am to TideSaint
and 2 fumble recoveries. He had significantly more turnovers than Barron and that carries more weight than sacks. You are also leaving out stats like passes defended which are pretty important for a defensive back.
Who have you had that has consistently made a pro bowl at defensive back? What I was referring to as consistency was any defensive back from Bama making the pro bowl, not just the same defensive back making reoccurring pro bowls. We had pro bowl selections in literally every year for the past 5 years and 4 of those 5 years had pro bowlers from players not named Patrick Peterson.
1 is better than none in the same way that 4 is better than 2.
quote:
You've had one guy CONSISTENTLY make the Pro Bowl over the last 5 years. One.
Who have you had that has consistently made a pro bowl at defensive back? What I was referring to as consistency was any defensive back from Bama making the pro bowl, not just the same defensive back making reoccurring pro bowls. We had pro bowl selections in literally every year for the past 5 years and 4 of those 5 years had pro bowlers from players not named Patrick Peterson.
1 is better than none in the same way that 4 is better than 2.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:21 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:17 am to Blanky6715
quote:
Who have you had that has consistently made a pro bowl at defensive back?
No one. And I have said multiple times that Patrick Peterson is in a league all by himself at the present moment. But he is one guy. Like Alabama and Julio Jones at WR.
quote:
1 is better than none in the same way that 4 is better than 2.
Fine. You got me. LSU has more Pro Bowl replacement players than Alabama. Feel better?
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:29 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:22 am to TideSaint
Lil bit 
ETA: I respect you as a poster bro, you crunch the numbers.
ETA: I respect you as a poster bro, you crunch the numbers.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:23 am
Posted on 2/23/17 at 10:29 am to Blanky6715
This whole argument began because some dude said LSU develops DBs better than Alabama. One of the guys you are touting that Pro Bowl rock for was brought in and developed at LSU by Nick Saban.
So why don't we just call it a wash and agree that both schools develop DB talent on a fairly equal playing field? I mean, yes, Patrick Peterson is probably the best DB to come out of the SEC in a long time and he did play for LSU. But how much developing did the #6 player in the country (and #1 CB) need?
Same with Julio. He was the #3 player overall in that Class of 2008. Did he turn into the best WR in the NFL because of his 3 years at Alabama? Hell no.
Some guys are just better than everyone else.
I respect you too. You haven't devolved into mindless "DBU" shouting throughout this whole thing and brought stats to back up your argument.
So why don't we just call it a wash and agree that both schools develop DB talent on a fairly equal playing field? I mean, yes, Patrick Peterson is probably the best DB to come out of the SEC in a long time and he did play for LSU. But how much developing did the #6 player in the country (and #1 CB) need?
Same with Julio. He was the #3 player overall in that Class of 2008. Did he turn into the best WR in the NFL because of his 3 years at Alabama? Hell no.
Some guys are just better than everyone else.
quote:
ETA: I respect you as a poster bro, you crunch the numbers.
I respect you too. You haven't devolved into mindless "DBU" shouting throughout this whole thing and brought stats to back up your argument.
This post was edited on 2/23/17 at 10:31 am
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News