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The evidence that stars matter
Posted on 8/8/17 at 10:52 pm
Posted on 8/8/17 at 10:52 pm
LINK
Probably German but good to have to link anytime a mindless fool claims stars don't matter(because his team isn't recruiting well).
Probably German but good to have to link anytime a mindless fool claims stars don't matter(because his team isn't recruiting well).
6
Posted on 8/9/17 at 12:30 am to Gatorbait2008
They do matter, but not having stars can be overcome. It's just harder to pull off.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 7:19 am to CockCommander
quote:
They do matter, but not having stars can be overcome. It's just harder to pull off.
I guess that depends on what kind of success you want to have. You aren't winning a national championship without some big time players.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 8:26 am to Gatorbait2008
NFL success doesn't have much correlation to CFB success.
Alabama always skews the college numbers way up because they always have the #1 class and are always in the playoff, Ohio State threatening to do the same thing. Very small selection size with 1 or 2 major outliers. If those two were recruiting at merely "great" levels, finishing in the top 5 every year, those articles would look a little different.
I would much rather see the four year running average for 10+ win teams (regular season only).
If you finish in the top 10 every year over a 4 year period, you should expect to compete for your conference. If 50% of your roster are blue chip players (4/5 star recruits) you should expect to compete for the playoff.
Alabama always skews the college numbers way up because they always have the #1 class and are always in the playoff, Ohio State threatening to do the same thing. Very small selection size with 1 or 2 major outliers. If those two were recruiting at merely "great" levels, finishing in the top 5 every year, those articles would look a little different.
I would much rather see the four year running average for 10+ win teams (regular season only).
If you finish in the top 10 every year over a 4 year period, you should expect to compete for your conference. If 50% of your roster are blue chip players (4/5 star recruits) you should expect to compete for the playoff.
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 8:28 am
Posted on 8/9/17 at 9:13 am to Gatorbait2008
quote:
anytime a mindless fool claims stars don't matter
they don't necessarily matter, your link kind of shows it. Players from every star category can make it.
Stars come into play with probabilities of likelihood of success
Posted on 8/9/17 at 9:37 am to Gatorbait2008
The problem with Stars that are given out dont take into consideration that some kids will fill out when they are 19-20 as opposed to kids reaching their potential at 17. Stars do matter to a certain extent but hunger, drive and coachabilitly are greater factors.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 10:52 am to BIGJLAW
"The problem with Stars that are given out dont take into consideration that some kids will fill out when they are 19-20 as opposed to kids reaching their potential at 17. Stars do matter to a certain extent but hunger, drive and coachabilitly are greater factors."
So Saban didn't have kids that had hunger and drive at Michigan state?
Lets be honest, Saban had extremely mediocre seasons there (25-22 1st 4 yrs) and wasn't considered an elite coach until he began recruiting far superior talent at LSU and Bama...
So Saban didn't have kids that had hunger and drive at Michigan state?
Lets be honest, Saban had extremely mediocre seasons there (25-22 1st 4 yrs) and wasn't considered an elite coach until he began recruiting far superior talent at LSU and Bama...
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:08 pm to BIGJLAW
quote:
The problem with Stars that are given out dont take into consideration that some kids will fill out when they are 19-20 as opposed to kids reaching their potential at 17. Stars do matter to a certain extent but hunger, drive and coachabilitly are greater factors.
How about you convince Coach Saban to start taking some gritty hard working 2 and 3 star players instead of 4 and 5 star ones just to prove your point.
See how that works out for you guys.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:15 pm to RandySavage
We do every year. Mark Ingram was a 3 star ranked like 56th RB in the country on one site and later won the Heisman.
Seem to work out great for us.
Seem to work out great for us.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:29 pm to TideWarrior
quote:
See how that works out for you guys.
Actually how is this. Saban won the 2009 NC and the 4 classes that were a part of that team were ranked 13th, 12th, 3rd, & 3rd. They were a total 52 3 star or lower guys in those 4 classes. Many of those players like Lester, Cody, Smelley, Womack, Jackson, Maze, Arenas, Hanks, and Ingram were the reason we went undefeated that year and won the NC
So yeah I think it will always work out for Saban.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 4:07 pm to TideWarrior
Mark Ingram was a 4* #10 RB per 247 and the #17 ATh 4* per rivals. Stars matter. Coaching Matters as well as development but having studs all over the field makes it easier. Out of the 50 247 3*s bama signed from 2007-15 that weren't K-Ps only 3 made an consistent impact. Terrence Cody, Eddie Jones and Chance Warmack. The rest transferred, were depth or ST.
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 6:28 pm to Gatorbait2008
Always look at the offer list....
Posted on 8/9/17 at 8:20 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
Mark Ingram was a 4* #10 RB per 247 and the #17 ATh 4* per rivals. Stars matter.
Maybe you are new to CFB recruiting but Scout before they were bought out by 247 recently had him as a 3 start coming out of HS. Rivals was the only one that had him ranked as a 4 star.
And per 247 they were not around when he came out of HS as they got started in 2010. So not sure the validity of any of their ranking of a player prior to them going into business. Just saying.
quote:
ut of the 50 247 3*s bama signed from 2007-15 that weren't K-Ps only 3 made an consistent impact. Terrence Cody, Eddie Jones and Chance Warmack. The rest transferred, were depth or ST.
Again before responding to my post please read it. I responded to the other poster that assumed Saban could not win with a lot of 3 stars. My example was his first NC in 2009 and this is what I posted in response
Actually how is this. Saban won the 2009 NC and the 4 classes that were a part of that team were ranked 13th, 12th, 3rd, & 3rd. They were a total 52 3 star or lower guys in those 4 classes. Many of those players like Lester, Cody, Smelley, Womack, Jackson, Maze, Arenas, Hanks, and Ingram were the reason we went undefeated that year and won the NC
But I guess reading comprehension is not a strong suit for gator fan and maybe Rosen should be talking about UF.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 9:23 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
they don't necessarily matter, your link kind of shows it. Players from every star category can make it.
Stars come into play with probabilities of likelihood of success
They do matter. With proper coaching a five star is considerably more likely to succeed than a three.
Look at the past century of UF football. We have had quite a few first round picks. Only one. ONE. Was a three star. Jarrad Davis.
Tabor, Spikes, Harvey, Tebow, Harvin, Fowler Jr, etc all five stars. Stars absolutely matter. It doesn't guarantee anything, but if they didn't, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer wouldn't try to recruit them and load their roster with them would they..
Posted on 8/10/17 at 2:53 pm to Gatorbait2008
quote:
With proper coaching a five star is considerably more likely to succeed than a three.
more likely to succeed, aka high probability. Which I stated. But stars dont determine the end result. Just because someone is rated 3 stars doesnt mean a damn thing to any one particular person. it only means something when talking about probabilities as a group.
quote:
Stars absolutely matte
yet you say this
quote:
It doesn't guarantee anything
quote:
Nick Saban and Urban Meyer wouldn't try to recruit them and load their roster with them would they..
do you really think they look at the 247 star chart?
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:27 am to TideWarrior
quote:
So yeah I think it will always work out for Saban
So why was saban an 8-4 average coach before he started getting top recruiting class every year?
Posted on 8/11/17 at 11:28 am to jvilletiger25
Except in 2009 he just finished what record for the last 3 years with his junior and senior class that neither were a top 10 class?
I have that answer=33-7 or 11-2 avg.
I know many of you on here want to say it has nothing to do with coaching just the recruits he gets but dumb is dumb because we can back and look at all those top classes from other programs that never had the success Saban has had because stars have no value unless someone can coach them up.
I have that answer=33-7 or 11-2 avg.
I know many of you on here want to say it has nothing to do with coaching just the recruits he gets but dumb is dumb because we can back and look at all those top classes from other programs that never had the success Saban has had because stars have no value unless someone can coach them up.
Posted on 8/13/17 at 9:58 am to TideWarrior
The only evidence you need to see that stars matter is the current Alabama dynasty. Number 1 recruiting classes translated to titles.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:59 am to Prettyboy Floyd
Maybe to sustain and build a dynasty but my point is You can win a NC without them with the right coach. The evidence is there that many teams sign top talent but yet have the coach to win
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:02 am to NYCAuburn
Recruiting is simply a numbers game. You can't use individual examples to prove a point from a group (team) perspective. The programs that can/do consistently recruit the highest rated players, are the most consistent winners. At that point the quality of coaching and training (development) comes in.
This ain't rocket science, fellas.
This ain't rocket science, fellas.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 8:04 am
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