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Questions for Ole Miss fans about NCAA
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:44 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:44 am
I've seen some of you:
1) admit things were done that shouldn't have been done.
2) say "everyone does it".
3) some dig in their heels and argue vehemently on every front.
Seeing 3 different perspectives from like minded individuals on the same topic got me curious so I have a couple of questions:
1) Which of the categories are you in and why?
2) What do YOU think the penalties will be?
3) How long do you think it takes to recover?
thanks in advance.
1) admit things were done that shouldn't have been done.
2) say "everyone does it".
3) some dig in their heels and argue vehemently on every front.
Seeing 3 different perspectives from like minded individuals on the same topic got me curious so I have a couple of questions:
1) Which of the categories are you in and why?
2) What do YOU think the penalties will be?
3) How long do you think it takes to recover?
thanks in advance.
6
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:45 am to bamasgot13
Hell, Bama does it too. How else do you think they win so much?
Wait...
Never mind.
It was ALL hugh. We fired him. Well, allowed him to resign.
That takes care of it, doesn't it?
Wait...
Never mind.
It was ALL hugh. We fired him. Well, allowed him to resign.
That takes care of it, doesn't it?
This post was edited on 8/10/17 at 10:46 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:49 am to bamasgot13
1) and 2).
2) Penalties will be bad. 2 year bowl ban, and hefty scholarship reduction. Along with AD being canned. Yes, everyone does it, but are not near as sloppy as Ole Miss was. It was the Wild Wild West in Oxford.
3) Since its Ole Miss it will be 8-10 years to recover and competing for a "every now and then" good bowl.
2) Penalties will be bad. 2 year bowl ban, and hefty scholarship reduction. Along with AD being canned. Yes, everyone does it, but are not near as sloppy as Ole Miss was. It was the Wild Wild West in Oxford.
3) Since its Ole Miss it will be 8-10 years to recover and competing for a "every now and then" good bowl.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:52 am to TSUNgummybear
quote:
TSUNgummybear
thanks for answering honestly. Why do you think some are digging their heels in so hard on all this? Too painful to admit it's gonna be bad, don't believe it's gonna be bad? I'm trying to see if they think they're going to convince other SEC fans it won't be bad/shouldn't be bad, or trying to convince themselves.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:57 am to bamasgot13
Normalcy bias.
Not an OM fan, obviously, but that's a logical psychological reason.
Not an OM fan, obviously, but that's a logical psychological reason.
This post was edited on 8/10/17 at 10:59 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 10:58 am to TSUNgummybear
quote:
3) Since its Ole Miss it will be 8-10 years to recover and competing for a "every now and then" good bowl.
It wont take long for OM to return to their historical average. Attaining what Hugh did might not happen for a long long time or might happen sooner, but it will based more upon the coach than the sanctions
quote:
Penalties will be bad. 2 year bowl ban,
I am in the 2-3 range
quote:
hefty scholarship reduction.
I think similar to USC's reductions but over 4 years
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:02 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
I think similar to USC's reductions but over 4 years
Yeah. I'd originally thought it would be 21-24, but readying some of the stuff Wolken posted from NCAA yesterday just sounds bad for them.
It really is an interesting psychological study tho. I remember most Bama fans dug in hard on Albert Means too. It is what it is. You don't want to believe it is going to be as bad as your fears, so you refuse to acknowledge that possibility.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:22 am to TSUNgummybear
quote:
Penalties will be bad. 2 year bowl ban, and hefty scholarship reduction. Along with AD being canned. Yes, everyone does it, but are not near as sloppy as Ole Miss was. It was the Wild Wild West in Oxford.
Sorry to pop you upside the head but listen up buddy boy. It was arrogance and flat out lying that did you in. Don't give me that "Everyone does it but not as sloppy as Ole Miss" bullshite.
You guys lied your asses off and continued to cheat even while being investigated. You threw everyone under the bus, character assassinated everyone who actually DID tell the truth, defended the indefensible, smeared the named of good people and you tell me Ole Miss was just "sloppy"?
I can't wait for the sanctions to hammer your asses into the ground. You guys are the most arrogant, cocky and despicable fan base I've ever seen in my life.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:24 am to bamasgot13
2. Everyone does it, but 1. too because things shouldn't have been done, not because they are wrong or things others don't do, but because of how stupid they are.
I think the penalties should be what they are self imposed plus huge show causes for the coaches who did this. Hell if you want OM to get rid of their entire administration that was involved, fine. If you want a lifetime ban for boosters fine. But punishing kids who had nothing to do with this is why the ncaa is viewed so negatively.
If OM gets a 1 year bowl ban then it wont take anytime to recover. They can offer 5-6 mil to a coach who knows he will have all the time in the world to right the ship because he has a built in excuse. OM has a 116 million dollar athletic budget and is in the SEC. Its a good job without the ncaa mess and if its a 1 year bowl ban there aren't players leaving and the mess is over. It pays a top 10 salary and recruits regularly under multiple staffs in the top 20. Coaches and players win games and OM is a top 20 job in those regards.
If its a 2 year bowl ban then it will take a minimum of 3 years before we can field a legit 8-9 win team. Which is a good norm for what we are as a program.
I think the penalties should be what they are self imposed plus huge show causes for the coaches who did this. Hell if you want OM to get rid of their entire administration that was involved, fine. If you want a lifetime ban for boosters fine. But punishing kids who had nothing to do with this is why the ncaa is viewed so negatively.
If OM gets a 1 year bowl ban then it wont take anytime to recover. They can offer 5-6 mil to a coach who knows he will have all the time in the world to right the ship because he has a built in excuse. OM has a 116 million dollar athletic budget and is in the SEC. Its a good job without the ncaa mess and if its a 1 year bowl ban there aren't players leaving and the mess is over. It pays a top 10 salary and recruits regularly under multiple staffs in the top 20. Coaches and players win games and OM is a top 20 job in those regards.
If its a 2 year bowl ban then it will take a minimum of 3 years before we can field a legit 8-9 win team. Which is a good norm for what we are as a program.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:27 am to bamasgot13
quote:
Why do you think some are digging their heels in so hard on all this?
Who are these people? I have yet to meet an OM fan who thinks we didn't break any rules. We believe that we are being treated unfairly sure, but I haven't met anyone who thinks we didn't make any mistakes.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:33 am to bamasgot13
I think we cheated, probably worse than a lot of schools, but on par with some other sec programs. We handled it VERY POORLY. We got behind people (Freeze and Farrar), that we shouldn't have and it is going to hurt us badly. I do believe had the nfl draft fiasco not happened that we would have gotten off with no more than what we have self imposed. I think they'll give us an additional year bowl ban, show causes for Farrar and Freeze, a bunch of scholarship losses, and a lot of recruiting restrictions. They could give us an additional 2 year bowl ban instead of 1, but they might be worried this sets the precedent and they won't want to do that to a Bama, Oklahoma, Texas if they were to get caught in the future. It will take some time to recover. I would imagine our next coach will have 3 or 4 Orgeron type years without the good recruiting classes and then leave or get fired. It's that following coaching hire that we will have to knock out of the park help recover. I'm not too optimistic about the next coach we'll get, (I think it will be Luke), and he will be handcuffed for too long to make a difference.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:34 am to Whereisomaha
quote:
. But punishing kids who had nothing to do with this is why the ncaa is viewed so negatively.
So let them out of the tainted program. The "kids" arent being punished except potentially not being able to go to a game.
quote:OM isnt paying 5-6 million for a coach. HF only got up to his level because you didnt want him to leave. A new coach will be in the 2-4 range
They can offer 5-6 mil to a coach
quote:no...
Coaches and players win games and OM is a top 20 job in those regards.
quote:
we can field a legit 8-9 win team. Which is a good norm for what we are as a program.
No...
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:36 am to MullenBoys
quote:
It was arrogance and flat out lying that did you in. Don't give me that "Everyone does it but not as sloppy as Ole Miss" bullshite.
both can be true
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:39 am to bamasgot13
quote:
Why do you think some are digging their heels in so hard on all this?
They're naive and stupid.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:39 am to Whereisomaha
quote:
But punishing kids who had nothing to do with this is why the ncaa is viewed so negatively.
I agree, which is why NCAA allows for transfers without penalty to those kids. They've rectified the situation somewhat by allowing that.
quote:
We believe that we are being treated unfairly sure
This is the part I'm talking about when I say digging heels in. If you read the NCAA stuff Wolken posted yesterday, you can see there is a pattern of rule breaking and lying that existed. There are several instances pointed to where Freeze had no atmosphere of compliance, saw things that concerned him but did nothing.
You aren't being treated unfairly. Your school violated rules like most do, but the difference is you did it at a different level and did it WHILE under investigation.
quote:
I think the penalties should be what they are self imposed
Well that's not gonna happen. You have more Level 1s than any recent case. You aren't getting off lightly, nor should you.
Unfortunately for OM, you are going to get hit very hard b/c if you don't, then schools like Bama, LSU, AU, UGA who have the ability to recover much faster from sanctions than OM does will start to wonder "why not us too then? those penalties aren't that bad". You are going to be punished for what you did and made an example of to deter others from doing similar (strictly my opinion)
This post was edited on 8/10/17 at 11:40 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:49 am to bamasgot13
quote:
It really is an interesting psychological study tho. I remember most Bama fans dug in hard on Albert Means too. It is what it is. You don't want to believe it is going to be as bad as your fears, so you refuse to acknowledge that possibility.
I've said it several times, but it is worth repeating that this is danged near an instant replay of the Albert Means saga.
Alabama fans (me included) reacted just exactly like the OM people are doing now.
The team responded the same way - collapsing during the investigation after a highly successful season.
The head coach's tenure ended the same way - in a sex scandal mostly unrelated to the NCAA issues.
All that's left is to see if the NCAA swings the hammer as hard as they did to us.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:49 am to MullenBoys
Being sloppy started all of this, bro. Lying did happen, never said it didn't hence where I stated the Wild Wild West.
Cute coming from a fan base that supports a player that hit a woman lying on the ground.
quote:
You guys are the most arrogant, cocky and despicable fan base I've ever seen in my life.
Cute coming from a fan base that supports a player that hit a woman lying on the ground.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:52 am to bamasgot13
quote:
Why do you think some are digging their heels in so hard on all this?
Everyone cheats in general and Lewis was likely paid by several schools' boosters, therefore OM fans feel singled-out. OM has presented enough holes in his accounts to make him look unreliable, though. The investigators presented compelling evidence too. Sheridan (lead investigator) and Freeze had a tiff and made the whole investigation personal. Freeze was a defiant douche who recruited Lewis despite the NCAA being on campus. The 5 year anal probe of your school would piss you off too if it was your team.
I'm not excusing Ole Miss, bc they made tons of mistakes in this investigation. This including their admin, Freeze, Barney, etc.
quote:
Too painful to admit it's gonna be bad, don't believe it's gonna be bad?
People believe what they want to be true. Still, the COI is separate from the Investigative Arm of the NCAA, so it remains to be seen how they view the case. Ole Miss self-imposed penalties already, so it's possible the COI views that favorably and could lessen the blow.
quote:
I'm trying to see if they think they're going to convince other SEC fans it won't be bad/shouldn't be bad, or trying to convince themselves.
Ole Miss fans on this site are trying to convince the "unconvinceable" for some reason - the SEC Rant has already rendered their verdict, so it's largely pointless.
This post was edited on 8/10/17 at 11:56 am
Posted on 8/10/17 at 11:53 am to bamasgot13
Ole Miss is over it's done.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:00 pm to Whereisomaha
quote:
If its a 2 year bowl ban then it will take a minimum of 3 years before we can field a legit 8-9 win team. Which is a good norm for what we are as a program.
Since Billy Brewer left, the median number of wins for an OM season is 7. The mean average is 6.3. Go back to the end of the Vaught era and those numbers drop to a flat 6 for both mean and median.
There is no fantasy world where 8-9 wins is the norm for OM. Historically, you're a 6-7 win program.
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