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Posted on 5/30/15 at 8:57 am to Mizzou4ever
Amen. Consider what the teams that left conferences with Texas gave up along the way. Arkansas and Nebraska had their access to Texas recruits cut way back. Colorado, Mizzou, and Texas A&M all lost great traditions and rivalries (as did the Huskers and Hogs) to get away from Texas.
Yet all of those programs agree that getting away from the Horns was one of the best things to happen to them.
Yet all of those programs agree that getting away from the Horns was one of the best things to happen to them.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 9:14 am to Arksulli
After Dan Beebe's firing, the worst mistake ever was when the Big 12 replaced interim commissioner Chuck Neinas. The dude was agressive enough to seek West Virginia and TCU, the dude looked ahead to the future and had vision. What could have been....Bowlsby is a tool, I'm not gonna lie...
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 9:19 am
Posted on 5/30/15 at 9:58 am to OU_Fan
quote:
After Dan Beebe's firing, the worst mistake ever was when the Big 12 replaced interim commissioner Chuck Neinas. The dude was agressive enough to seek West Virginia and TCU, the dude looked ahead to the future and had vision.
You must be joking. Neinas as the savior?
Neinas was the guy who got ropadoped by Mizzou into forcing the Big 12 into a GOR that was twice as long as what OU and Texas wanted. Then Mizzou still left at a bad time.
Neinas was the guy who went after TCU instead of the MUCH MUCH MUCH more logical geographic option of Louisville. Louisville would have made it so WVU wasn't on an island and if the Big 12 Network ever came into existence it would have a bigger footprint than Texas and Great Plains flyover country.
Dan at least can be credited with keeping the league together, him plus ESPN is the only reason there is still a Big 12. Dan also had vision, as he was examining a Big 12 Network YEARS before the B1G had one. In fact the guy who he got to look into that went on to make the B1G Network when the Big 12 schools shot that idea down. Dan wasn't perfect, but he had more longterm vision than Neinas.
Bowlsby is a tool, but he has his hands tied. The Big 12 is designed to not have effective and strong leadership, and the LHN contract is designed to lock away Longhorn content and give them a big golden parachute if they want to bail on the Big 12. Bowlsby has no real leverage over Texas, like all the rest of the Big 12 teams. He is doing what he can to keep that shite show together, because even he knows that expanding to 12 with the likes of Cincy and Central Florida or whatever kills the Big 12 per team payout which could kill the Big 12.
Vision can sometimes be overrated. Larry Scott has more vision than any conference commissioner- he started realignment and he broke the $20 million a year barrier first. But even his vision can't overcome apathy towards sports in his key markets and the fact that the PAC 12 Network has trouble getting distribution. The reality of the PAC's situation, much like the ACC, is that they are going to be left behind the B1G and SEC on revenue. The only vision of his that could have prevented that is the Texasfied PAC 16, but even a man with vision can't work with a petulant program like Texas. If Scott can't make it work with Texas, how can any less talented Big 12 commissioner? Slive played follow the leader on this stuff and now he has the best deal in the game. Vision is overrated, smart management is key.
The Big 12 is the runt at the table and there is little that can be done to fix that today. The fact that the Big 12 GOR expires before the ACC GOR is probably the most important thing in all of this and is the reason no matter what the Big 12 might die in ten years. At least between now and then a few (all?) Big 12 teams will make more the ACC teams, their TV deal is the worst in the Power 5.
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 10:03 am
Posted on 5/30/15 at 10:00 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Neinas was the guy who went after TCU instead of the MUCH MUCH MUCH more logical geographic option of Louisville.
The B12 not taking the Line Beards and letting the ACC get them was the worst damage control ever. Seriously, 20 years from now they will be studying that one in business schools as what not to do in fiscal crisis.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 10:11 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
The B12 not taking the Line Beards and letting the ACC get them was the worst damage control ever. Seriously, 20 years from now they will be studying that one in business schools as what not to do in fiscal crisis.
I agree 100%! And it's not fair for me to dump that on Neinas (nor is it fair for the OU fan to give him credit) as TCU was hand picked by Deloss Dodds because he liked the TCU AD's drinking and storytelling style. I am serious:
quote:
“I've got one shot,” he recounted, “to go see DeLoss.”
It was a quite a visit. Del Conte grabbed a car, a driver and a bunch of reference material, binders, extolling the advantages of TCU and Fort Worth.
“I get up at 8 o'clock in the morning and drive to Darrell K. Royal Stadium. I get to [Dodds'] office. Nine comes around, 10 comes around. I've got a GA [graduate assistant] outside waiting for me, by the way. I tell him, ‘Just wait 10 minutes I'll be back.' Pretty soon it's 3:30.
“[DeLoss] comes out and says, ‘Who are you?' Chris Del Conte, Texas Christian U. He doesn't hear ‘Chris.' he hears ‘Del'. ‘Del, let's go get ourselves a drink and discuss it.'
“We went to a restaurant and had a little libation at 3:30. By the time 8:30 rolls around, we were [into it] pretty good but we got ourselves in a situation. I kept trying to give him my [binders]. He said, ‘I've heard enough, Del' and just walked away.”
LINK
Dodds wouldn't even look at the facts, he liked the TCU AD and his story so they got the most important vote over Louisville. Dodds ran the Big 12 like some good old boy's club despite hundreds of millions in revenues and the end result is a Big 12 that doesn't have enough geography for a competitive Big 12 Network even IF the LHN contract allowed it.
I think the Big 12 didn't think that the ACC would take Louisville. They probably figured the more academic UCONN was the ACC target, so Louisville and BYU were always there to get back to 12. The needed 10 to keep up the media deal so that part was more rushed. When the ACC took Louisville I would have love to been a fly on the wall at the Big 12 office, or at the OU AD (they pushed HARD for Louisville). As you say that mistake will be studied in sports management for years, in a chapter right after the mistakes learned from the LHN.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 10:14 am to JesusQuintana
The fact that he felt the need to express that suggests an inferiority complex. 
Posted on 5/30/15 at 10:44 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
When the ACC took Louisville I would have love to been a fly on the wall at the Big 12 office, or at the OU AD (they pushed HARD for Louisville). As you say that mistake will be studied in sports management for years, in a chapter right after the mistakes learned from the LHN.
LHN was the pride before the fall but still made money for Texas
The June 2010 move not to add W Virginia and Louisville is classic failure of upper management to correctly deal with a crisis.
If, within days of Nebraska and Colorado bolting, the B12 announced the addition of West Virginia and Louisville they stay at 12 and never lose their CCG. I mean realignment had been on the main radar once the Blair Report got leaked in 2008 or 2009. Everybody else moved fast that June but the B12 just sat there like a deer in the headlights for the next year or 2.
Worked well for Texas A&M and Missouri as they got to escape but everybody else got stuck on the sinking ship. OU should have been the most pissed off as you stated they were on board with the Line Beards as the Cards would have been the #3 or #4 school in the B12. Instead they got non P5 TCU who was a non P5 and was always available as no other P5 conference would want them.
the bigger issue was keeping the B12 at 12 in June of 2010 probably stops Texas A&M and Missouri from bolting and leaving the B12 at 10.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:02 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
the bigger issue was keeping the B12 at 12 in June of 2010 probably stops Texas A&M and Missouri from bolting and leaving the B12 at 10.
Probably not, as the LHN still would still exist and we would have had the same polical cover. If you read the 100 Year Decision (you really should Cheese if you haven't) you see A&M's president doing the math and figuring out the SEC is a better deal. We would have still left and TCU would be in our spot today (in a better conference than the current Big 12 admittedly).
The only event in time that could have kept us in the fold was the vote on the Big 12 Network. If the Big 12 would have had a network first it would have stayed completely intact. In fact I assume such a conference would have been strong enough to help rip the ACC apart and we would be in a four conference landscape.
But every team did studies and Nebraska and Texas learned they might make more going on their own. Without leadership on the issue it failed and instead the B1G is the innovator who is rewarded for being a first mover. It will be fun in ten years when the pieces get back into motion.
Oh and on the OU thing, the fact that they couldn't get Louisville in was because the wallflowers played their hand already. They tried to force Texas into the PAC (or at least themselves) and failed. That meant they had no leverage over Deloss on the picks. Also OU still wanted TCU, and Louisville only came up vs WVU. I don't think WVU and Louisville were ever an option because of the TCU AD. The conference failed at the core.
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 11:05 am
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:08 am to Sevendust912
quote:
Hopefully one day you all will let us in the SEC
You're on most of our short lists in our daily expansion discussions.
I don't see us going to 16 unless the B14 adds two more, but if/when we do I'd rather WV than most others.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:12 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
B1G
Can we stop calling them that? I dgaf about heir brand. There are 14 schools - not 10. I dgaf what they want to be called either.
I motion we all start referring to the Yankee conference as the B14.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:17 am to Mizzou4ever
quote:
Any of you geniuses that still has a boner for Texas joining the SEC, pay close attention to the post directly above.
Does anyone? Before the expansion there was almost no enthusiasm for Texas on this board. We've beaten NC and Virginia schools to death on here...shite I'd take OU over Texas any day.
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 11:28 am
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:42 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
I don't think WVU and Louisville were ever an option because of the TCU AD.
Both were an option in June 2010 because there was already back channel work being done for both of them that summer. TCU was done after that, not before.
As for keeping Texas A&M and Missouri, you forget that adding UL and WVU meant adding votes and support to OU and other schools in the north. Once the PAC deal was dead (and it was dead the first weekend of June 2010) as fiscal years for many schools is July 1 to June 30. You would have expanded footprints east of the Mississippi which means east coast media exposure AND you have 2 schools that would vote with the OK, KS, and IA schools and less for the TX schools. At that point Mizzou has votes for their needs and the Tigers probably feel better that the B12 will return to power.
I am well aware of the 100 year decision and have been doing my part to get Texas A&M into the SEC since the 80's. What many forget is both the 90's realignment and the 10' realignment were orchestrated and started by the B1G as a way to capture Notre Dame in the B1G fold. They added Penn State and stayed at 11 for 15 years or so waiting for Notre Dame at 12. I think if the B1G had added Pitt and Syracuse they had a shot but they let the ACC pick them up and now Noter Dame is just a decade away from full ACC membership.
I sometimes think texas really thought Notre Dame might consider the B12 as Jack had them drooling on the hook. I really believe Jack had already made a plan with the ACC long before it ever became public. In the long term survival view I think the ACC did the most in realignment to cement their survival and the B12 did the worst job. The smoking gun for realignment in this century has always been the B1G. Delany always has numbers on his side but not the product. Slive had the product but not the numbers. Everybody else is just trying to carve out who holds 3rd place.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 11:51 am to Cheese Grits
Replace Beebe with Slive and Texas with Bama and Network with scheduling refs etc and it could be the SEC.
Beebe's preferential treatment of Texas did not go overlooked by other members of the Big 12. As his tenure wore on after his hiring in 2007, some member institutions -- particularly Nebraska and Texas A&M -- grew tired of being in a conference where one school was more important than the other.
Beebe would never say this, of course. And naturally, there were other shortcomings of his leadership that serve as evidence Beebe came with an expiration date.
Take television money. As other conferences began building their own dedicated television networks, the Big 12 dragged its heels. Schools in the Big Ten were raking in around $15 million more than schools in the Big 12, thanks to better TV deals and the young-but-promising Big Ten Network.
Beebe could have worked to build the Big 12's own custom cable network. Instead, he let Texas enter in to its own agreement with ESPN that jumpstarted the Longhorn Network -- a cable operation providing 24-hour coverage of Texas Longhorns sports.
The move gave Texas an easy $15 million in its pocket -- along with unmatched exposure as the only college sports department with its own television network -- while the rest of the Big 12 sat idly by. The Longhorn Network effectively reduced the value of any television package the Big 12 might pursue, adversely affecting the already-slim TV revenues earned by the other 11 member schools.
Not to mention the Longhorn Network reeked of Beebe's Texas favoritism.
Beebe's preferential treatment of Texas did not go overlooked by other members of the Big 12. As his tenure wore on after his hiring in 2007, some member institutions -- particularly Nebraska and Texas A&M -- grew tired of being in a conference where one school was more important than the other.
Beebe would never say this, of course. And naturally, there were other shortcomings of his leadership that serve as evidence Beebe came with an expiration date.
Take television money. As other conferences began building their own dedicated television networks, the Big 12 dragged its heels. Schools in the Big Ten were raking in around $15 million more than schools in the Big 12, thanks to better TV deals and the young-but-promising Big Ten Network.
Beebe could have worked to build the Big 12's own custom cable network. Instead, he let Texas enter in to its own agreement with ESPN that jumpstarted the Longhorn Network -- a cable operation providing 24-hour coverage of Texas Longhorns sports.
The move gave Texas an easy $15 million in its pocket -- along with unmatched exposure as the only college sports department with its own television network -- while the rest of the Big 12 sat idly by. The Longhorn Network effectively reduced the value of any television package the Big 12 might pursue, adversely affecting the already-slim TV revenues earned by the other 11 member schools.
Not to mention the Longhorn Network reeked of Beebe's Texas favoritism.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 12:03 pm to TutHillTiger
To be fair, Beebe could only do what he was allowed to do. The B12 really dropped the ball with his predecessor (Weiberg sp?) who conceived the conference network model while still employed by the B12. From there he was hired by the B1G to launch the BTN and from there he was hired by the PAC to set up their network. In the decade prior to the SEC dominance the B12 really was the #2 behind the SEC as the B1G and PAC had fallen to just Southern Cal and Ohio State to keep them at the mountaintop.
I really believe if such a tinfoil conspiracy actually existed at the time it was for the B1G and PAC to wreck the B12 as they could not wreck the SEC duet the tighter historic bonds of the conference. While the SEC got much bad press for wrecking the B12 nobody ever seemed to blame the B1G or PAC for starting the destruction. If the B1G does not get Nebraska, the B12 is probably the 2nd most powerful conference in the public eye today.
I really believe if such a tinfoil conspiracy actually existed at the time it was for the B1G and PAC to wreck the B12 as they could not wreck the SEC duet the tighter historic bonds of the conference. While the SEC got much bad press for wrecking the B12 nobody ever seemed to blame the B1G or PAC for starting the destruction. If the B1G does not get Nebraska, the B12 is probably the 2nd most powerful conference in the public eye today.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 12:05 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Replace Beebe with Slive and Texas with Bama and Network with scheduling refs etc and it could be the SEC.
Never change
Posted on 5/30/15 at 12:24 pm to cardboardboxer
Yeah I have nothing against WV, but the moment I knew they were headed to the Big 12 I couldn't help but laugh at that conference. What a damn joke! Not because WV isn't worthy, they are, but the obvious miles between any other Big 12 school. I hope WV finds and lands in a conference more to their liking and closer to home.
The Big 12 deserves all the jokes and mockery thrown at them. When you allow one bully to rule the nest, sooner or later, people will want to flee. Not everyone will sit and take Texas' shite when they have options.
The Big 12 deserves all the jokes and mockery thrown at them. When you allow one bully to rule the nest, sooner or later, people will want to flee. Not everyone will sit and take Texas' shite when they have options.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 12:27 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Replace Beebe with Slive and Texas with Bama and Network with scheduling refs etc and it could be the SEC.
so, so dumb
Posted on 5/30/15 at 12:56 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Replace Beebe with Slive and Texas with Bama and Network with scheduling refs etc and it could be the SEC.
Posted on 5/30/15 at 12:57 pm to TutHillTiger
Dp
This post was edited on 5/30/15 at 12:58 pm
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