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An objective look at the LSU-Bama game [LONG]

Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:15 pm
Posted by Kcoyote
Member since Jan 2012
12050 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:15 pm
Feel free to chime in

LSU has the clear advantages here:

-Rushing offense (not much needs to be said here, LF7 is a beast)
-O-line play (both in sacks allowed, TFLs allowed, rushing ypa). Alabama's Oline looks like a mess more often than not. It also takes way more penalties than it ever has under Saban.
-Giveaways. LSU just hasn't given the ball away. Alabama has.
-Ability for big plays of 30+ yards. Harris has hit more than Coker with one less game. It's a big part of his game with almost 400/1000 of his yards coming from plays of 50+ or more. LF7 has 7 30+ runs on the year, Henry has 5.
-Field goals. 9/9 on the season.



Alabama has the clear advantages here:
-Secondary play and passing defense
-Takeaways (LSU doesn't create nearly the amount of takeaways)
-DL play in terms of sacks and TFL. 3rd in the nation in sacks.
-Punting. LSU has some scary bad punting.
-Red zone D. This isn't really Alabama being great at it, it is just LSU is last in the conference in it.



It's pretty equal here:

-Rushing defense. Literally neck and neck in almost every measure.
-Passing offense. Bama averages more yards/game, a better completion percentage and more TDs. Harris has improved the last three games and completes more long plays. He also hasn't thrown an interception. Coker relies more on shorter passes than Harris, something to remember.
-Level of retard on the Rant


The things that will matter that people aren't talking about:

-Harris has relied on big passes to gain yardage. This translates to a low completion percentage. In games when the big play isn't working, Harris ends up with a 4/14 of 80 yards (long of 28), 9/14 for 71 yards (long of 23), 12/17 for 74 yards (long of 14). In the 4 games he has thrown for over 100, he has hit longs of 51, 62, 52, 67.

This is important. This isn't me flaming Harris. It's a good skill to have to be able to hit those bombs (Coker doesn't possess it all too well). It is a thing that WILL matter in this game however because Alabama leads the SEC and is 3rd in the nation at getting to the QB. These long bomb plays generally take longer to develop, and this could given Alabama time to get to the QB.
Without a consistent short passing game, it could all rely on LF7's shoulders to get first downs. He's damn good at it, and we'll see how it works out.

So it is an even matchup here, and if Alabama can get through LSU's strength, which is their Oline, and get to the QB, it will impact this game. If LSU can protect QB and allow time for those long plays to develop, and can work around Bama's secondary, then they succeed in this matchup.


-The return game, specifically when LSU kicks to Alabama. Guaranteed either one way or the other, a kickoff/punt return will matter in this game on the scoreboard. LSU has given up the most long punt return plays of 20+ (4 times in one less game). They've also given up 7 30+ kickoff return plays in one less game. These are the worst in the SEC. Meanwhile Alabama is 2nd in the SEC in long punt return plays, and 5th in long kickoff returns.

On the flipside, Alabama fumbles A LOT on kickoff and punt returns. It isn't just the Ole Miss game, it is something that is consistently a hold your breath moment for Alabama every punt return.

So one of these two things has to break. Either Alabama succeeds in conquering that weakness of LSU and gets a lot of yardage on return plays, or LSU succeeds in creating those turnovers against Alabama that Alabama seemingly continues to give up.



Most people are probably just going to say, hurr durr, you've just said protect the QB and don't commit turnovers, everyone knows that! I'm saying much more than that. Those are the two areas where LSU and Alabama have the most significant differences in their play. Whoever capitalizes on the other's most significant weakness is the winner in this football game.
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 7:37 pm
Posted by MOT
Member since Jul 2006
27766 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:19 pm to
quote:

-Passing offense (yes, scary to think about, but Coker has performed better than Harris). Bama averages more yards/game, a better completion percentage and more TDs.

This is debatable imo. LSU averages more ypa and hasn't thrown an interception.
Posted by The Tide Rises
Attalla, Alabama
Member since Aug 2015
307 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:20 pm to
Run the ball.
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:21 pm to
I appreciate what is actually an objective look at the game, but you really have no insight into LSU's passing game. The games that you singled out where "the big play isn't working" were Harris's first two starts of the season and a game where his receivers dropped approximately 5-6 passes.

LSU is able to hit the big play because when you commit that extra defender in the box to stop Fournette, you leave an LSU receiver without safety help, and we have feasted on those one-on-one matchups the past few games.

Passing offense is clearly an advantage for LSU... as you stated, it produces more big plays and Harris hasn't thrown a turnover all year.
Posted by GeauxToBed
Covington, LA
Member since Mar 2015
6113 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:22 pm to
Coker has not performed better than Harris. Not by a long shot.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43789 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

you leave an LSU receiver without safety help, and we have feasted on those one-on-one matchups the past few games


This is the key to LSU's passing game. Both Dupre and Dural will beat one-on-one coverage. Bama's success will be decided by whether or not they can stop LSU's running game without safety help in the box.
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 7:24 pm
Posted by geauxcoco
Greenville, SC
Member since Apr 2007
11021 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

Alabama leads the SEC and is 3rd in the nation at getting to the QB


FL was number one in sacks in the SEC when they played LSU and never laid a finger on Harris once....good luck with that. You will get some pressure on the QB, but not consistently like you are used to. Just the way it is baw
Posted by GeauxToBed
Covington, LA
Member since Mar 2015
6113 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

Harris ends up with a 4/14 of 80 yards 

It was 4/18, and there were no less than 7 drops.

Fwiw OP, I upvoted in spite of my couple of disagreements with your analysis.
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 7:26 pm
Posted by Kcoyote
Member since Jan 2012
12050 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:25 pm to
Again, big plays are not just defacto, automatic yards. That's why I said if Harris can hit them, LSU wins this game. They are a combination of the defense you play against and how well your QB can get them off. In terms of needing to gain yardage with a higher completion rate, Coker wins the day.

Alabama just has a better likelihood to get to the QB, and to pick off Harris than all of the previous teams he has faced. And in some of those games, even with a subpar defense, he hasn't looked great. That's what I'm saying.


Posted by Patton
Principality of Sealand
Member since Apr 2011
32647 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:25 pm to
Excellent write up. I did not know about the LSU long passing plays being so important. I can't wait to watch our D line go up against that O line. Gona be some sweet old man football.
Posted by BayouBengals03
lsu14always
Member since Nov 2007
99999 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

-Passing offense (yes, scary to think about, but Coker has performed better than Harris). Bama averages more yards/game, a better completion percentage and more TDs. Coker relies more on shorter passes than Harris, something to remember.

Only one I would disagree with. And I'm sure many other LSU fans have said the same.

Harris does rely on the deep ball a lot, you're right. However, he hasn't thrown an interception yet, and he's a lot more of a running threat when the play breaks down (Saban would count QBs scrambling as part of passing defense).

I'm pretty confident that Harris would start at Alabama over Coker. I think LSU has the advantage here, but it might not show as much head-to-head because Alabama has the better secondary.
Posted by chilge1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
12137 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

In terms of needing to gain yardage with a higher completion rate, Coker wins the day.


On Third Down:
Coker: 27/53 241 yards 0 TD 2 INT; 10 carries 32 yards; 18 1st Downs
Harris: 27/48 507 yards 6 TD 0 INT; 13 carries 88 yards; 24 1st Downs

ETA: To include rushing statistics
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 7:37 pm
Posted by rmnldr
Member since Oct 2013
38210 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:29 pm to
LSU focuses on a vertical passing game but that doesn't mean they can't establish a short passing game. Don't let those stats about long passes fool you.
Posted by Kcoyote
Member since Jan 2012
12050 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:29 pm to
I probably should have put the passing offense into the toss-up category to be honest.

Coker wins in yards per game/completion percentage.

Harris wins in big plays and less turnovers.
Posted by BobBarker
Bompton
Member since Nov 2012
11657 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:31 pm to
quote:

Passing offense (yes, scary to think about, but Coker has performed better than Harris). Bama averages more yards/game, a better completion percentage and more TDs. Coker relies more on shorter passes than Harris, something to remember.




Objective my arse. Coker has nearly 100 more attempts then Harris and only has 500 more yards and two more touchdowns to show for it. He's thrown 7 interceptions to Brandon's 0 as well. BH has a QBR of 153.9 to Jake's paltry 134.7. GTFO with your "objectivity". Look at more then just raw stats when comparing the two.
Posted by GeauxToBed
Covington, LA
Member since Mar 2015
6113 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:32 pm to
There's no need for the rotflmao emoticons. This thread has been pleasantly flame-free so far.
Posted by SECond2none™
Member since Aug 2003
7730 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:34 pm to
quote:

It is a thing that WILL matter in this game however because Alabama leads the SEC and is 3rd in the nation at getting to the QB. These long bomb plays generally take longer to develop, and this could given Alabama time to get to the QB.
One thing to remember here is not only is LSU's pass protection very good, but Harris is very good at scrambling for a big pass play or a big run. LSU is 15th in the nation in sacks allowed.

Watch this video for a great example vs Florida. UF was top 10 in the nation in QB sacks before the LSU game and they sacked Harris 0 times. They are still top 15.
Posted by Kcoyote
Member since Jan 2012
12050 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:34 pm to
See one post above yours man. They're different passing offenses. I'll move it to the toss-up category if everyone believes it to be so, hence the feel free to chime in part.


I won't however move it to LSU's side simply though, because people suddenly believe Harris is an All-SEC QB after three decent games and 4 very subpar ones.

Posted by Kcoyote
Member since Jan 2012
12050 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:35 pm to
quote:


Watch this video for a great example vs Florida. UF was top 10 in the nation in QB sacks before the LSU game and they sacked Harris 0 times. They are still top 15.



Not gonna lie, that stiffarm was sick.
Posted by Sampson
Chicago
Member since Mar 2012
24560 posts
Posted on 10/26/15 at 7:35 pm to
Stats are important but not so much for this one. Intangibles: every starter on this LSU team has known nothing but last minute/OT gut wrenching losses to Alabama. Fournette will run harder for this game than any other game. I like LSU's A-game/frick you Alabama game against what will for sure be Bama's A-game this year. 1/9/11 will finally be vindicated. frick you Alabama
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