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re: 1992 Expansion Question
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:51 pm to tedmarkuson
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:51 pm to tedmarkuson
quote:
That school in Austin was never interested in the SEC and rebuffed all interest. That had nothing to do with Baylor.
"The one that made the most sense was Texas," Schiller said. "I spent some time with DeLoss Dodds (the Texas athletic director) and he really wanted to join the conference."
Done deal. Everything agreed to but the name on the dotted line. Then, it all came apart.
"The state legislature (in Texas) somehow got wind of it through Texas A&M and said we had to bring in both schools or we couldn't take Texas," Schiller said.
The SEC didn't want A&M. Ultimately, the two Texas schools would leave the Southwest Conference and join the Big 12.
correct on ann richards forcing gaylor into the deal leaving the swc for the big 12, it was the faggies that kept texas from going to the sec.
LINK
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Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:53 pm to tedmarkuson
quote:
first things first, the architect of expansion was Harvey Schiller roy kramer's predecessor, krammer gets credit for it by the uniformed but by the time kramer came on the scene expansion was a done deal.
the target's were arkansas and texas, the original idea came from frank broyles who first floated the idea to his protege and close friend Tennessee AD doug dickey. broyles felt like given his relationship with darrell royal and deloss dodd he could deliver texas as well.
dickey floated expansion to schiller and the three men dickey, broyles and schiller met at the master's tournament where schiller upon first meeting broyles remarked is it true?
LINK
As the landscape of college athletics continues to rattle with the looming prospects of major conference realignment, Harvey Schiller was recently recalling what might have been.
From 1986-89, Schiller was the commissioner of the SEC. Light years ahead of his contemporaries, Schiller helped to spectacularly alter the direction of the SEC by moving toward expansion and a championship game in football.
In a recent interview, Schiller reflected back on how Arkansas and South Carolina became the 11th and 12th schools in the league. But the most shocking revelation concerned how close the University of Texas came to joining the SEC.
Schiller, who left the SEC to become the executive director of the United States Olympic Committee and would later serve as president of Turner Sports and CEO of YankeeNets (going from working for Ted Turner to George Steinbrenner), said Texas had virtually agreed to become an SEC member. Arkansas and Texas would join the SEC from the Western side and South Carolina and either Florida State, Miami or Virginia Tech would enter from the East.
As for Schiller, he was not around to see his expansion efforts come to fruition, but it was definitely his baby, even though most in the media today continue to give Kramer all of the credit.
good info. thanks
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:54 pm to hogminer
quote:
The Colorado option?
No. Arkansas is the one who initiated the expansion. That's the difference between leaders and people who follow or jump off of sinking ships.
At the time of the expansion in the late 80s/1990 Arkansas was dominating all big 3 sports in the SWC.
tFlagship leading yet again
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:55 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Come again?
Sure some of the teams were ranked when Free Shoes played them but if memory serves FSU would play Florida + 1 or 2 tough games + lots of fluff
That seems to me what the general opinion is. Facts, however, do not bear that out.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 2:06 pm to FarmersFight
quote:
That's simply not true. Why use hyperbole?
In 1989 Arkansas won baseball/basketball/football championships
Baseball conf. champs - 89-90, CWS in 85-87-89
Basketball conf. champs- 89-90-91
Football conf. champs- 88-89
Track was the most dominant sports program in the nation.
Arkansas was the most well rounded athletic program in the SWC which is the reason they wanted Ark. and Texas at the time.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 2:12 pm to hogminer
Arkansas went 8-10 in the Southwest in their last two seasons. Your definition of "dominate" seems to be different than mine.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 2:55 pm to boxedlunch
quote:
Arkansas went 8-10 in the Southwest in their last two seasons. Your definition of "dominate" seems to be different than mine.
Let them have their fun. Hogs are at their best when they are talking about the glory days back when there were a "national power" in the SWC.
I mean, did you know that Nixon went to a game. Nixon!
Posted on 6/26/15 at 2:56 pm to GreyReb
who cares - we got em whether we want em or not
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:03 pm to boxedlunch
quote:
Your definition of "dominate" seems to be different than mine.
I'll say it again for you and maybe you will understand.
At the time of negotiation (which was in the late 80s) with the SEC about expansion.... Arkansas owned the SWC. Trust me I was there.
BTW, dominate is a verb. Dominant is an adjective.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:07 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
cardboardboxer
We owned you guys for sure. Texas was our only comp. most of the time.
With that being said, I'm glad A&M is in the conference instead of the assholes in Austin.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:10 pm to hogminer
quote:
We owned you guys for sure
We had more SWC titles than you did before you left.
With that being said, I am glad we are in the SEC too.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:12 pm to hogminer
quote:
I'll say it again for you and maybe you will understand.
At the time of negotiation (which was in the late 80s) with the SEC about expansion.... Arkansas owned the SWC. Trust me I was there.
BTW, dominate is a verb. Dominant is an adjective.
Grammar smack? What's next, "nana nana boo boo"? My reference was to a verb, so you're confirming I'm correct.
If you had meant "at the time of negotiation", you should have said "at the time of negotiation". You didn't, and now you're blaming me for thinking you meant what you said? Well, nana nana boo boo to you.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:13 pm to Quidam65
quote:
5. South Carolina was actually last on the list and had a deficit the prior year. But like the poor kid Charlie in Willy Wonka who ended up with a Golden Ticket, SC ended up with the invitation and like Arkansas did not hesitate to sign up.
We're well aware of the situation prior to receiving the SEC nod. We lucked into it, without question. It's taken quite a while for the AD to catch up with the rest of the conference. Telling the ACC to piss off and then wandering the independent desert is like quitting a bad job without another offer lined up. Yeah, we're much better off now, but those years without work were rough.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:28 pm to hogminer
Your initial time frame was late 80s/early 90s.
SWC Champions - Football:
1985 - Texas A&M
1986 - Texas A&M
1987 - Texas A&M
1988 - Arkansas
1989 - Arkansas
1990 - Texas
SWC Champions Basketball:
1986 - Texas/TCU/Texas A&M, Tourney - Texas Tech
1987 - TCU, Tourney - Texas A&M
1988 - SMU, Tourney - SMU
1989 - Arkansas, Tourney - Arkansas
1990 - Arkansas, Tourney - Arkansas
1991 - Arkanas, Tourney - Arkansas
SWC Champions Baseball:
1986 - Texas/Texas A&M, Tourney - Texas A&M
1987 - Texas, Tourney - Texas
1988 - Texas, Tourney - Texas
1989 - Texas A&M/Arkansas, Tourney - Texas A&M
1990 - Arkansas, Tourney - Texas
1991 - Texas, Tourney - Texas
Arkansas did not dominate nor was dominant. Neither were they the most well-rounded athletics department. Texas was.
The two years before SEC expansion - sure okay.
SWC Champions - Football:
1985 - Texas A&M
1986 - Texas A&M
1987 - Texas A&M
1988 - Arkansas
1989 - Arkansas
1990 - Texas
SWC Champions Basketball:
1986 - Texas/TCU/Texas A&M, Tourney - Texas Tech
1987 - TCU, Tourney - Texas A&M
1988 - SMU, Tourney - SMU
1989 - Arkansas, Tourney - Arkansas
1990 - Arkansas, Tourney - Arkansas
1991 - Arkanas, Tourney - Arkansas
SWC Champions Baseball:
1986 - Texas/Texas A&M, Tourney - Texas A&M
1987 - Texas, Tourney - Texas
1988 - Texas, Tourney - Texas
1989 - Texas A&M/Arkansas, Tourney - Texas A&M
1990 - Arkansas, Tourney - Texas
1991 - Texas, Tourney - Texas
Arkansas did not dominate nor was dominant. Neither were they the most well-rounded athletics department. Texas was.
The two years before SEC expansion - sure okay.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:54 pm to FarmersFight
quote:
Your initial time frame was late 80s/early 90s.
You assumed that from what he said, I assumed that from what he said. Apparently, and I'll take his word for it, he did not mean that. I'm good with that, but he should not blame me for his bad communication.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 5:19 pm to GreyReb
Bobby Bowden was petrified of joining the SEC
Posted on 6/26/15 at 5:30 pm to Thurber
In 1992, Bert was 22.
Not sure how far he had expanded at this age but he was an upperclassman at Iowa so pretty sure the expansion had already started.
Not sure how far he had expanded at this age but he was an upperclassman at Iowa so pretty sure the expansion had already started.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:33 pm to hogminer
quote:
Texas was a done deal until A&M and Ann Richards threw a hissy fit.
Exactly.
Arkansas initiated the expansion, Frank had Texas on board to make the jump.
The SEC was fine with adding just Arkansas and Texas to get to 12, but did explore the possibility of expanding to 14-16 teams by gauging the interest of Clemson, FSU, Miami, SCAR, and a couple of the NC schools.
Aggy never had an offer, the SEC didn't have an interest in Aggy at that time, which caused aggy to cock block Texas via the legislature and Richards who threw Baylor into the mix.
Had Texas went with Arkansas, the SWC would have collapsed into a conference like the MWC, the Big8 had no interest in expansion into Texas without Texas being on board.
Likewise, had Arkansas not jumped to the SEC, they would have found themselves as the odd man out when the big 8 expanded due to the politics involved with the Big 8 landing Texas (aggy, Baylor, ttu).
Frank turned down the big 8s offer to join in the early 70s, the Big 8 was wanting to expand to 10 teams via Arkansas and Texas.
When Frank started broadcasting games, and after the NCAAs anti-trust lawsuit, Frank decided the SWC was not a viable long term option with out restructuring the conference due to the small market of only two states in a conference. The SWC looked into trying to lure away LSU and bring back the Oklahoma schools, but decided neither would leave, so Frank decided to take Arkansas to the SEC as he felt Arkansas' culture was a better fit in the SEC vs the Big8 (South vs Midwest).
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:43 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
South Carolina was basically the last option for the sec.
Indeed. We nearly drowned ourselves going independent like that.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 6:40 am to DaleDenton
quote:
Exactly.
Well not exactly. Realignment has been going on for ages and discussions have been going on for quite some time. When the CFA was formed it really began modern realignment as we know it. An event happened in the early 80's and most all moves since have followed that framework. Designs and ideas are the dreams of young men but old men are the ones that make the decisions to enact them.
"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
(Turbulent changes do not affect reality on a deeper level other than to cement the status quo.)
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