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re: OT: Are the Rams leaving St Louis?
Posted on 3/28/15 at 3:08 pm to Mizzeaux
Posted on 3/28/15 at 3:08 pm to Mizzeaux
As a Rams and Chargers fan, who lives in Southern Cal., I'm of a unique perspective here.
First, the Raiders will never come to STL. That fan base is not of the STL demographic, the Raiders will be in LA. Both proposed stadiums will have facilities for two teams, the Raiders will be one of them.
The Chargers won't go anywhere. Even though they have the best case for leaving, as the city of SD has completely dropped the ball for the last 15 years in terms of even proposing a new stadium, much less building one. However, the ball is rolling here, and the new mayor is onboard, unlike the last 4 or 5. I'm confident a stadium gets built here.
That leaves the Rams. Kronke is the only owner of the three teams looking to move with pockets deep enough to float the note for a new stadium. I believe this has been his vision since the day he bought the Rams. He might be a Missouri guy, but he is dollar sign and ego driven. Turning the least valued NFL franchise into the most valuable would be the final feather in his cap. He wants everyone to know his empire wasn't built solely because he married the right gal.
The Rams are as good as gone, I will be shocked if Stan can't piece together enough votes from the owners to leave. The only loose end I see is that Los Angeles is the carrot every team that needs a new stadium dangles in front of the politicians and fans in their home city. There are probably a few owners, like Kahn, who still want that carrot out there when the time comes. They will be lobbying hard against the move.
The best bet for STL is hoping the Jags pack it up and take the cities offer when the time comes.
First, the Raiders will never come to STL. That fan base is not of the STL demographic, the Raiders will be in LA. Both proposed stadiums will have facilities for two teams, the Raiders will be one of them.
The Chargers won't go anywhere. Even though they have the best case for leaving, as the city of SD has completely dropped the ball for the last 15 years in terms of even proposing a new stadium, much less building one. However, the ball is rolling here, and the new mayor is onboard, unlike the last 4 or 5. I'm confident a stadium gets built here.
That leaves the Rams. Kronke is the only owner of the three teams looking to move with pockets deep enough to float the note for a new stadium. I believe this has been his vision since the day he bought the Rams. He might be a Missouri guy, but he is dollar sign and ego driven. Turning the least valued NFL franchise into the most valuable would be the final feather in his cap. He wants everyone to know his empire wasn't built solely because he married the right gal.
The Rams are as good as gone, I will be shocked if Stan can't piece together enough votes from the owners to leave. The only loose end I see is that Los Angeles is the carrot every team that needs a new stadium dangles in front of the politicians and fans in their home city. There are probably a few owners, like Kahn, who still want that carrot out there when the time comes. They will be lobbying hard against the move.
The best bet for STL is hoping the Jags pack it up and take the cities offer when the time comes.
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Posted on 3/28/15 at 3:12 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
The Chargers won't go anywhere. Even though they have the best case for leaving, as the city of SD has completely dropped the ball for the last 15 years in terms of even proposing a new stadium, much less building one. However, the ball is rolling here, and the new mayor is onboard, unlike the last 4 or 5. I'm confident a stadium gets built here.
Doesn't any government funding of stadia in California require 55 or 60% voter approval? You think that will happen, or will they try to skirt the law by making it an extension of the convention center like they planned a few years ago?
Posted on 3/28/15 at 3:32 pm to Mizzeaux
the city is talking like they can get around it, the Chargers are calling bullshite and saying they dont believe they can, and that a vote will never pass.
It's all very convoluted, I'm pretty sure it gets done though. I just don't buy this combined stadium with your number one rival deal. When neither ownership group has the cash to throw around to make it happen, it sure seems like more of a pipe dream than anything. I know the Chargers have some financial support from Goldman-Sachs, however I just can't see the Raiders and Chargers working together on a deal. It would be like MU and kU trying to build a football stadium in KC.
I've been back and forth on what I thought would happen, but right now I'm pretty confident that this is how things will shake out. I really didn't think the Rams were going anywhere, but now I think it's a forgone conclusion.
Still, there are other variables. For example, Kroenke is building that stadium. He's doing it regardless, so I guess there's a chance the Chargers and Raiders could be his tenants, I can't imagine the NFL allowing that though. So, maybe he buys the Raiders or Chargers, and dumps the Rams on a local group.
It's all very convoluted, I'm pretty sure it gets done though. I just don't buy this combined stadium with your number one rival deal. When neither ownership group has the cash to throw around to make it happen, it sure seems like more of a pipe dream than anything. I know the Chargers have some financial support from Goldman-Sachs, however I just can't see the Raiders and Chargers working together on a deal. It would be like MU and kU trying to build a football stadium in KC.
I've been back and forth on what I thought would happen, but right now I'm pretty confident that this is how things will shake out. I really didn't think the Rams were going anywhere, but now I think it's a forgone conclusion.
Still, there are other variables. For example, Kroenke is building that stadium. He's doing it regardless, so I guess there's a chance the Chargers and Raiders could be his tenants, I can't imagine the NFL allowing that though. So, maybe he buys the Raiders or Chargers, and dumps the Rams on a local group.
Posted on 3/29/15 at 8:50 pm to kilo
I was just a kid when it all went down.
But I'd like to know how this abomination that is the Dome was ever built?
Did people cry out about an indoor stadium in a city with great fall weather (for the most part)?
Everything about everything was wrong with the Rams coming here.
We should have gotten Jacksonville's expansion franchise.
Rams should have never left LA.
Sucks that this city may pay a hell of a price for all kinds of back alley shadiness that we had no part of.
But I'd like to know how this abomination that is the Dome was ever built?
Did people cry out about an indoor stadium in a city with great fall weather (for the most part)?
Everything about everything was wrong with the Rams coming here.
We should have gotten Jacksonville's expansion franchise.
Rams should have never left LA.
Sucks that this city may pay a hell of a price for all kinds of back alley shadiness that we had no part of.
Posted on 3/29/15 at 9:28 pm to hipgnosis
It was built after several shitty winters over the course of about 20 years.
The thought was, a dome would be best for the fans, and it was at the very tail end of the dome craze.
Much like the Chicago White Sox stadium is the last stadium built during the concrete cookie cutter craze, the dome is much the same. Outdated, because the folks in charge were looking backwards not forwards.
The thought was, a dome would be best for the fans, and it was at the very tail end of the dome craze.
Much like the Chicago White Sox stadium is the last stadium built during the concrete cookie cutter craze, the dome is much the same. Outdated, because the folks in charge were looking backwards not forwards.
This post was edited on 3/29/15 at 9:37 pm
Posted on 3/29/15 at 9:50 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
The thought was, a dome would be best for the fans, and it was at the very tail end of the dome craze.
As I remember there was a lot of pie in the sky talk about wanting the Super Bowl and needing an indoor stadium to get one.
Posted on 3/29/15 at 9:54 pm to reedus23
Yeah, I remember that talk too.
That was back when the SB was exclusively at a warm climate stadium, like a dome in STL would change that.
However, they did actually come through with a Final Four. So, there's that.
That was back when the SB was exclusively at a warm climate stadium, like a dome in STL would change that.
However, they did actually come through with a Final Four. So, there's that.
Posted on 3/29/15 at 10:05 pm to tobythetiger
Unfortunately, I agree
Posted on 3/30/15 at 8:41 am to Mizz-SEC
Sure, Stan is all about the almighty dollar, but it isn't like he hasn't put a sizable investment into the rams. Moved them here as a favor. If the fans never embraced the team, you can't fault the owner for wanting to leave.
He gave you all the GSOT. Be grateful you got that.
As for the stadium issue....if you want pro sports, you have to build it. If its the Rams or Raiders, or even an MLS soccer team, A stadium has to be built...or no one is touching St. Louis. But you can't spin it as a stadium for the rams, that will get shot down. Has to be for the "future of st. louis as a pro sports town"
IMO Rams will head to LA. from there I have 2 theories. 1. Chargers move to LA and Raiders to STL. 2. Raiders to LA and Chargers stay in San diego.
He gave you all the GSOT. Be grateful you got that.
As for the stadium issue....if you want pro sports, you have to build it. If its the Rams or Raiders, or even an MLS soccer team, A stadium has to be built...or no one is touching St. Louis. But you can't spin it as a stadium for the rams, that will get shot down. Has to be for the "future of st. louis as a pro sports town"
IMO Rams will head to LA. from there I have 2 theories. 1. Chargers move to LA and Raiders to STL. 2. Raiders to LA and Chargers stay in San diego.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 10:49 am to 5thTiger
There was a dome because part of the justification for the public funding was that it was also going to be used for convention purposes as well as drawing other high profile indoor events. Final fours etc.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 11:51 am to hipgnosis
quote:
But I'd like to know how this abomination that is the Dome was ever built?
After St. Louis lost out badly in the expansion sweepstakes to Charlotte and Jacksonville in 1993, the City and State got their act together to build a new stadium to NFL specifications. At that time, the move was towards indoor stadiums. Georgia Dome was the lastest at the time.
Also keep in mind, domes were considered a huge improvement over the concrete donuts that everybody built in the 70s & 80s.
At about the same time though, some sports fanchises started to move away from the cold, barren and artificial stadiums. In 1992 the Orioles built Camden Yards to rave reviews. Football and baseball teams started replacing their Astroturfs with natural grass.
But St. Louis forged ahead with a stadium that would be approved by the NFL and got it.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 12:11 pm to Stlox
the biggest reason they built a dome was so that it was serviceable as a host for conventions. It was part of the argument for public funds.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 5:16 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
First, the Raiders will never come to STL. That fan base is not of the STL demographic, the Raiders will be in LA. Both proposed stadiums will have facilities for two teams, the Raiders will be one of them.
Raiders are a Cali team. I'd hate to see them leave that state. If Missouri got the Raiders, that rivalry could get even nastier between the fans. But I don't see them leaving California.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 5:57 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Sure, Stan is all about the almighty dollar, but it isn't like he hasn't put a sizable investment into the rams. Moved them here as a favor. If the fans never embraced the team, you can't fault the owner for wanting to leave.
He gave you all the GSOT. Be grateful you got that.
LOL. What's up with this shite?? Why not play the Ferguson card too?
First, what investment? He bought in low as the minority partner, got an option to buy it all if the team was ever sold, got Shad Kahn to do all his negotiating for him with Carroll Rosenbloom's kids and then just matched Kahn's offer in 2010.
Even in St. Louis, the Rams have appreciated almost $250 million over those 5 years.
Oh yeah, and he's had the sweetest lease in the league for 20 years at $250,000 a year.
Stan Kroenke has made a ton of jack in St. Louis and the fans did embrace the Rams, fully. Holy shite, they may have been the first city to ever buy Personal Seat License's. If not, they were among the first in the nation.
I remember those first games at Busch II, the GSOT years, etc. Even now, with 10 years of putrid football in the books, St. Louis still generates some of the best local ratings in the country and has filled 90% of the seats.
Yes, the Rams will never reach the level of love the baseball Cardinals have. But who could?
As for the stadium issue... I think the leadership group in St Louis is going to succeed in assembling the needed local and state funding. Then the ball will be squarely in the court of the NFL. That's when things should get interesting. Will they live up to the promises they've been making or not?
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