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re: Is Tennessee still the clear #2 all-time in the SEC?
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:39 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:39 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Did i miss something? Did LSU have 1 of their BCS titles taken away.... pretty sure they have 2
2
Posted on 1/29/15 at 10:40 pm to beardkp
2 AP titles (1 of them also BCS) and an additional BCS only title
I was only using AP titles but LSU folks pointed out their 2003 title was not an AP title but should probably be included
I was only using AP titles but LSU folks pointed out their 2003 title was not an AP title but should probably be included
Posted on 1/29/15 at 11:19 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Use hardware instead. That puts us at #2. 
Posted on 1/29/15 at 11:25 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Terrible. I'm guessing even the gump nation finds you tiresome.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:04 am to boxedlunch
quote:
Try reading what I wrote. I'm not "promoting" the list, I'm pointing out the FACT that it is the list that the major teams use. My opinion and your opinion does not overcome the fact that it is what they use. I'm not saying anything more than that.
However there is not a single team that I know of that claims all the titles attributed to them on that list.
For example Alabama officially claims 15 NCs while your list attributes 19 to the Tide (including the spurrious 1941 title) and mine attributes 13 (not including 1941). LSU officially claims 3 NCs while your list attributes 7 to the Tigers, mine attributes 4.
Neither team uses your list or mine. Mine happens to be closer to both of these teams claims. So your "fact" turns out not to be a fact at all.
But what are we looking for here? Some sort of authoritative (NCAA) list, that fans, not 'historians', can agree to be a reasonable attibution of NCs to college football teams and move forward from there in discussion of comparisons.
But what I find amusing in your diversion from the OP is that no matter which list is used, UT does not come out on top of LSU for national championhips. So I'm really not sure why you make such a big deal about pointing out the comprehensive list.
I still say that Tennessee's claim to a clear #2 all-time position in SEC football is not clear at all. You have provided no valid data to the contrary.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:06 am to Dalosaqy
Terrible? Wtf are you talking about? Your conclusion after all of this is that somehow this was an attempt to demean LSU? My gosh some of you need to reevaluate things.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:08 am to beardkp
quote:
Did i miss something? Did LSU have 1 of their BCS titles taken away.... pretty sure they have 2
No, he's using AP titles for simplicities sake - and to try to avoid the inevitable argument over MNCs.
The "BCS" title is really nothing more than the old UP/USAToday/ESPN coaches poll trophy. In using the AP poll exclusively, the OP has conceded several MNCs for Alabama.
In 2003 LSU was not awarded a trophy by the AP, only the Coaches/BCS.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:11 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Thank you - thought this was clear. Never thought using AP titles only would show that I was trying to screw an SEC school not named Alabama.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:17 am to Korin
quote:
That puts us at #2
The SEC played football for 100 years before 1991.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:50 am to SavageOrangeJug
Tennessee is like that woman you see now who was hot in HS or college. Really pretty and some what intimidating. Also not very nice,but holy smokes was she gorgeous.
But now she's gained lots of weight, wears too much makeup, wears opened toe shoes with no pedicure and has wrinkles from too much sun.And,she's still a stuck up jerk, but you don't care anymore.
But now she's gained lots of weight, wears too much makeup, wears opened toe shoes with no pedicure and has wrinkles from too much sun.And,she's still a stuck up jerk, but you don't care anymore.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:52 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
quote: LSU quote: 2 AP Titles Get this bullcrap out of here. Major poll national titles.
LSU and USCw are now the permanent holder of the title "last split national champions".
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:56 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
but LSU folks pointed out their 2003 title was not an AP title but should probably be included
Probably should be included?? Are you serious? A BCS title should "probably" be included.
Now I know a BCS title isn't like some of those jewels the Tide claims from 1941 and 1930,but holy smokes.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:59 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Probably should be included?? Are you serious? A BCS title should "probably" be included.
Now I know a BCS title isn't like some of those jewels the Tide claims from 1941 and 1930,but holy smokes.
You did actually read the first post, right? Those titles aren't used. Only AP titles were used. I made an exception for LSU's BCS-only title and added it that I didn't make for any other non-AP titles.
CLEARLY I HATE LSU
Posted on 1/30/15 at 8:04 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
And,she's still a stuck up jerk, but you don't care anymore
Reminds me of lsu's decline, and the fact that their current irrelevancy doesn't stop many of their fans from pretending they are still a beauty queen.
Regarding the OP's list, the gap is narrowing between UT and some other schools but - based on the whole body of work - there is not another team that can claim more success.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 9:01 am to SummerOfGeorge
If LSU, UF, or even UGA puts up a national title and a few more SEC titles in the next decade or so while Tennessee does absolutely nothing they'll have a hard time arguing #2 all time.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 9:17 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Probably should be included?? Are you serious? A BCS title should "probably" be included. Now I know a BCS title isn't like some of those jewels the Tide claims from 1941 and 1930,but holy smokes
The OP was only trying to set the ground rules for discussing Tennessee's status as "clear #2 all-time". He wasn't trying to minimize anyone's accomplishments, only trying to use a clear, unambiguous metric.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 9:20 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
However there is not a single team that I know of that claims all the titles attributed to them on that list.
I'm perfectly willing to have a civil conversation if you like, but I'm having difficulties taking you seriously when you give me comments like this one that are clearly shot from the hip.
Examples of teams claiming every one on this list are multiple. Kentucky claims 1950 solely because it popped up on this list. Princeton lays claim to their 28 titles specifically because of this list. Where do you think Cal's 5 national championships come from? Dartmouth's championship is not on the list you gave. Illinois claims all 5 of theirs. Michigan State claims all 6 of theirs on the list. Navy claims 1926 based on Boand and Houlgate. Penn lays claims to all 7 national championships. Where do you think those national championship claims Texas A&M has gotten so much grief for comes from? They claim all 3 on this list now.
I skipped past obvious teams like BYU and Clemson who also claim all title on this list, but are on your list as well.
Yes, there are several teams who have years that appear on the list that are so weak, they don't feel comfortable claiming them. However, even teams not claiming on the list, often tell you that they are on the list, but aren't claiming them. For years Alabama had this in their media guide:
LINK
Note at the bottom where it says "The other 5".
Other schools, as I mention before, list out their titles and selectors, including names not on your list. Spare me the "not a single team" talk.
Look, this is a difficult topic to quantitatively measure, which people want to do. There's really no way to do it, and people will disagree on everything you do, and rightfully so in a lot of way. You can't get a grasp on the "national title" count unless you look at the whole picture. The best thing to do is see what a school claims and measure how solid those claims are. Alabama, for instance, claims more titles than Notre Dame, but Notre Dame has more titles. Alabama claimed them a little looser than Notre Dame did, but Alabama has solid backing for their titles. It's fair to count Alabama with more, but consider that Notre Dame has fared better in the category. I think it's dangerous to make conclusions based limited fact, though, and the list you provide clearly limits facts.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 9:22 am to SavageOrangeJug
quote:
The SEC played football for 100 years before 1991.
lolno
The SEC was formed in 1932. Therefore the SEC played football for 58 years before 1991. Its member schools played football before the SEC was formed - a lot of them is the same associations, SIAA and Southern.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 9:25 am to boxedlunch
quote:
Alabama, for instance, claims more titles than Notre Dame, but Notre Dame has more titles.
Per the "everyone in the SEC claims is the only metric when laughing at Alabama" method of AP-only, Alabama has 9 and Notre Dame has 8.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 9:35 am to boxedlunch
quote:
I'm perfectly willing to have a civil conversation if you like
Am I not being civil?
Fine, use your list to prove UT's status as a clear #2 above LSU.
I'm also unclear as to why you keep pursuing this with me, and not countering the OP's use of AP titles only. I don't have an agenda in pushing the abbreviated list, only that it seems a reasonable alternative to the OPs criterion on MNCs.
OR
frick the NCAA lists then, let's go with the OPs original criterion, AP/major poll titles. UT's still below LSU and therefore MNCs cannot be used as a criterion to establish UT above LSU all-time.
...or is it just that you're trying to avoid the originally posted topic?
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