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re: The popular narrative regarding transgender individuals disturbs me greatly
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:13 pm to Mulat
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:13 pm to Mulat
quote:
So was homosexuality in the DSM II, do you not think that this too may change or do you think homosexuality is a Mental Illness as well?
Homosexuality hasn't been in the DSM in nearly 30 years, and I have outlined the differences already in this thread.
This post was edited on 1/20/15 at 10:14 pm
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Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:13 pm to Roger Klarvin
Your broad views across many spectrums amuses me, in a good way. Although I disagree with some of them it is refreshing to see a person that doesn't stick to one side of the shallow narrative that plagues most Americans.
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:19 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Homosexuality hasn't been in the DSM in nearly 30 years, and I have outlined the differences already in this thread.
Guess you are a little slow, 30 years ago people talked about Homosexuality just like you do now about this disorder. Why haven't you answered either of the two questions I asked instead of attacking me.
1. Do you think based on the history of Homosexaltiy in the DSM in the PAST, that this disorder too may also drop out of the DSM one day?
2. DO YOU think Homosexuality is a mental disorder, yes or no?
This post was edited on 1/20/15 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:26 pm to Mulat
quote:
Guess you are a little slow, 30 years ago people talked about Homosexuality just like you do now about this disorder. Why haven't you answered either of the two questions I asked instead of attacking me.
People never argued medical therapy was effective for homosexuality, because it wasn't.
And where did I attack you? I simply made a statement
quote:
1. Do you think based on the history of Homosexaltiy in the DSM in the PAST, that this disorder too may also drop out of the DSM one day?
No, because they are objectively and inherently different. I still have hope that the trained professionals who gather to make these decisions aren't going to give way to political pressure from the ignorant masses. I personally have never worked with a psychiatrist who would support removing GDD. There was and is sound medical reasoning for removing homosexuality, it was not merely "political correctness". It was removed before the homosexual movement was in full swing anyway, back in the 80s it was still generally acceptable to ostracize homosexuals especially in light of the HIV fear sweeping the nation.
quote:
2. DO YOU think Homosexuality is a mental disorder, yes or no?
No
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:27 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:You veered off of medical science here into apologetic belief with shades of cultural Marxism (my favorite).
In contrast, the psychological effects of homosexuality are largely caused by their social environment. It is the external treatment from others, not the fact that they are gay, which causes morbidity and morality. Homosexuals raised by accepting parents with a supportive social environment generally have good outcomes. It is those who are constantly shamed, bullied and kicked out of the home who suffer from the significant detrimental effects.
Unless of course you have a litany of unbiased studies with controls over a lifetime studying all physical, social, etc angles
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:31 pm to genro
quote:
You veered off of medical science here into apologetic belief
I'm not apologizing for homosexuals, I actually find the thought of two men together fairly unpleasant. The fact is however that there exists MEDICAL studies which reveal the morbidity is largely the result of social stressors affiliated with being a homosexual.
For instance, the stigma against gay men is MUCH worse than it is for lesbians and thus homosexual females suffer from lower rates of depression and have better life outcomes.
quote:
Unless of course you have a litany of unbiased studies with controls over a lifetime studying all physical, social, etc angles
There is virtually no condition that exists with such studies. Even for diabetes, heart disease, etc. the prevalence of lifetime studies showing all social factors are virtually nonexistent.
You are holding up this issue to unfair scrutiny, demanding a different level of evidence than you would any other condition.
This post was edited on 1/20/15 at 10:32 pm
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:31 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
People never argued medical therapy was effective for homosexuality, because it wasn't.
OK, I am going to take this to mean that you DO NOT see this dropping out of the DSM, whatever the current edition.
I have to say I don't agree with you. I can see this changing.
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:33 pm to Mulat
Yes, I EXPLICITLY said I don't see it coming out of the DSM.
You realize that most GDD individuals and their parents don't want it taken out, right? As long as it is in there it is much cheaper and easier to get their treatments.
You realize that most GDD individuals and their parents don't want it taken out, right? As long as it is in there it is much cheaper and easier to get their treatments.
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:33 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The fact is however that there exists MEDICAL studies which reveal the morbidity is largely the result of social stressors affiliated with being a homosexual.
quote:Well which is it?
There is virtually no condition that exists with such studies. Even for diabetes, heart disease, etc. the prevalence of lifetime studies showing all social factors are virtually nonexistent.
quote:Well the social stigma is certainly the only difference between two men and two women.
For instance, the stigma against gay men is MUCH worse than it is for lesbians and thus homosexual females suffer from lower rates of depression and have better life outcomes
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:34 pm to genro
All yall gay
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:35 pm to genro
quote:
Well which is it?
Stop playing dumb, you are smart enough to see the difference in those statements.
You demanded lifetime studies showing a multitude of factors with perfect controls, which is not what I was referencing.
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:39 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
You realize that most GDD individuals and their parents don't want it taken out, right? As long as it is in there it is much cheaper and easier to get their treatments.
No actually I never considered that angle, that to me is different than you see it. I see it as it benefits the providers that it say in, follow the money
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:39 pm to Roger Klarvin
What is the basis of your claim that the harm in homosexuality is caused primarily by social factors?
So far we have the claim of a study comparing gay males to lesbian females.
So far we have the claim of a study comparing gay males to lesbian females.
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:49 pm to genro
Good study on GDD, highlighting the fact that most kids grow out of it and those who are treated can often see resolution much sooner. Additionally the most common sexual orientation outcome is homosexual, meaning many of those with GDD are suffering from a subconscious defense mechanism in an attempt to deal with their same-sex attraction, a mechanism that likely results from the perceived necessity the many in society place on homosexuality being viewed as abnormal. "If I like boys, I must actually be a girl" to put it simply:
LINK
Here is one analyzing the causes of psychosocial outcomes in homosexuals:
LINK
ncbi has an extensive list of studies on these matters if you are interested.
LINK
Here is one analyzing the causes of psychosocial outcomes in homosexuals:
LINK
quote:
The findings are consistent with prior studies that have found a high prevalence of suicide risk in volunteer samples of bisexual/
homosexual males and females.
quote:
The increased prevalence of psychological morbidity in homosexual males and females appears to have a strong correlation with psychosocial stressors imposed in the home and among peer groups.
ncbi has an extensive list of studies on these matters if you are interested.
This post was edited on 1/20/15 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 1/20/15 at 10:55 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The increased prevalence of psychological morbidity in homosexual males and females appears to have a strong correlation with psychosocial stressors imposed in the home and among peer groups.
Well DUH!
Posted on 1/20/15 at 11:30 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:"Appears"
The increased prevalence of psychological morbidity in homosexual males and females appears to have a strong correlation with psychosocial stressors imposed in the home and among peer groups.
Correlation =\= Causation
Ignore physical effects and other social maladaptations
Ignore chicken v the egg most importantly because not PC
Good times
Posted on 1/20/15 at 11:32 pm to genro
Posted on 1/21/15 at 12:17 am to genro
Whatever, you're gonna believe what you want to believe.
Posted on 1/21/15 at 1:08 am to Roger Klarvin
Wait. What do I believe? I'm challenging your belief here
Posted on 1/21/15 at 1:18 am to genro
And I've supported my belief to the point where any reasonable person would at least realize I'm not simply arguing a blind, unsubstantiated opinion here.
You're being unreasonable at this point, either to be argumentative or because you disagree.
You're being unreasonable at this point, either to be argumentative or because you disagree.
This post was edited on 1/21/15 at 1:19 am
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