So what do y'all make of Lewis and Harris not returning?

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I thought Lewis got better as the year went-on.

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I disagree and didn't see anything from him this year, but regardless Lewis is still not gonna start over Walton or Moore.

Mason Harris was wayyyyy to small to be playing DE

Don't think it matters whether they were asked to leave or decided to leave on their own

I always hate to see a Gamecock not complete his career at USC for whatever reason, good or bad. The thing about both Harris and Lewis was they have gotten their degrees, which is what they played FB for. So USC's obligation to them have been fulfilled, in the truest sense.

Still doesn't look nor feel good if said players are forced out of the program, and Spurrier always advises players who have already gotten their degrees or are set to graduate - and are back on the depth chart - to seek better playing opportunities elsewhere rather than finish their careers standing on the sidelines watching someone else play...

The development of both Moore and Walton at LB that moved them past Roberts, Lewis, & Holloman who were ahead of them in the program are telling signs. Both Roberts and Holloman are rising 4th-year Jrs next year, and with the abundance of incoming DEs I doubt Allen-Williams will be used a lot as a OLB/DE in the BOB role of a 3-4 scheme. Then there's the 4 incoming LBs in the '15 class. We are gong to be almost over-stocked at LB, even without Lewis...

Same thing with Harris at Defensive End. I thought he was a solid contributor at times as a DE, but was probably too small and would always be as an edge rusher. IMO USC has too many LBs pretending to be DEs: they are either too short, too light, or both. I was already wondering what we were going to be able to do with all the DEs on the depth chart that hasn't really established themselves (Cooper, Harris, English, Washington, Johnson, McClain.....heck, go ahead and list ALL of them) once we bring in all the DE-potentials in this class (Blackshear, Lewis, Sawyer, Wideman, Whitlow, Jones, Covington). There's just not going to be enough ball snaps on defense for all of them.

Perhaps some of those under-sized DEs who were first recruited as LBs may be moved back to the LB position, but that's pretty tough for them to be yanked back and forth like that. And we've already gone over how stocked the LB position would be without them. But IMO there may be more attrition at the DE spot: Cooper was the only other 4th-year Jr. along with Harris at the DE spot, and he's been mostly injury-prone his entire career. We'll see I guess....

Also both Lewis and Harris put out "thank yous" on twitter to USC, the program, etc. Sounded like there wasn't any hard feelings, but that it was what both agreed to do. Hopefully that means they weren't forced out against their wishes...

When you put it that way Conway ... well stated.

Yeah, I dunno about the other boards because I never read them but I do know that Botkin is not liked by all the players, even some of the linebackers.

He's a screamer, likes to get right-up in your face, and he never takes the blame for anything ... or so I've been told. He likes to think of himself as a man's man, a tough guy, but he's not well respected by some of the players and at least one of the coaches, maybe two. Evidently, if something goes wrong on the field it's either the DLine coach's fault or the Secondary coach's fault - and his shtick is wearing-out fast.

But I have no idea if that is going to translate into a coaching change or not, although, it was recently inferred, to me, that if there was going to be a coaching change on the staff it might be Botkin being replaced.

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He's not going anywhere, I don't think.

He's got NFL player experience - and Spurrier likes that because he can translate it to his players. Plus Spurrier all but said the yelling is something the players better get used t

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If we had the opportunity to upgrade, but didn't, I'm disappointed. If the opportunity wasn't there, then we just gotta move forward.

Also, I'm fine with a 'yelling' coach. There is no 100% absolute best way to coach anybody. Different players respond to different styles and different styles can get more out of players than other styles. One of the best coaches I ever had was an a-hole. We would do conditioning drills even when guys were throwing up. Several guys hated playing for him, quit the team b/c of his style, but the guys who stayed went on with me to win State.