re: Here Was a Man..............

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True...but I can go farther than this. Medicines are "created" and used while under patent. Once the patent runs out and generics come on the market, lowering the price...the pharmaceutical companies will change one, very minor ingredient that does not change the effectiveness of the medicine and market it as new and improved, when in fact, it does absolutely nothing new that the original medicine did not do. But,because of the change in formula, they can market it as new and patent it charging higher prices. They then give kickbacks and free samples to reps that push this "new" miracle drug. We won't even go into the drug trials that have been run on unsuspecting people years ago.

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Oh for sure. I am torn because on one hand I understand the need for patents because it's so incredibly expensive to bring a drug to market and so many fail (at least 10 or so for every 1 that ever comes to market, I'd have to look the exact stat up). If you don't have that protection, the drive to produce the drugs drops significantly and stifles innovation.

That being said, I am not a fan at all of companies knowing they're gonna just tweak one little thing and get a new patent on the new drug. Thats an area where a lot of the direct to patient advertising is really bad too. Constant commercials about "ask your doc for this new drug, it's so much better" have a much bigger effect than people think. That's why a lot of docs try to use generics and explain to patients that the newest one usually isn't much better and therefore isn't worth the higher cost (except in cases where it actually is an upgrade that's worth it). I don't know that I'd consider it corruption though as much as companies working within the established framework in a way that is ethically questionable to some.

And yea, some of the trials that have been run before are definitely a dark side of medicine, such as the Tuskegee syphilis stuff. Reading about the trauma knowledge gained from the Japanese in WWII is really interesting from an ethical standpoint.

But think of the things that have been done by organized religion in the past as well, whether it be inquisitions or children's wars or even the recent cover ups of child molestation. Anything "run" by humans (I say that because I understand God is at the "top" of religion but on earth it is run by people), is bound to go astray and have its faults.

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As a Christian you guys have allowed me to lay out my beliefs plainly. That is what is required of me as a Christian. I have tried to do this respectfully, and I think you guys have allowed me to do so. In return, I have tried to thoughtfully consider your point of view. This is how I learn.

I may not have changed anyone's minds...and you may not have changed my mind. But I THINK we have gained a new respect and understanding for one anothers belief system. That's a good thing.

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I completely agree . The world needs more of that from both sides. Merry Christmas to you and yours

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Merry Christmas to you and yours

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Same to you, TM! I've enjoyed it! Go enjoy the time you have with your family.

My wife just found out a couple of days ago that her mom has cancer. Obviously my wife is upset,and it has put a bit of a damper on Christmas for us. You never....NEVER know how long we have on this earth together, so we must enjoy each other for the time we have.

You're welcome. I miss the banter. Sometimes it takes a bit of a troll to rekindle it.

Merry Christmas! I have one very happy girl right now. Her mother just came and picked her up for an hour and she'll be right back to make me play with her some more.

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She got it all!

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Did she get a rubber chicken?

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I get a bigger kick out of watching the grandson play and have fun than I ever did when i was getting all the presents!

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Truth!

ya'll are old

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She got it all!

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Pretty girl HRD....

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Thanks! I've got awhile before I get some grandkids to enjoy. The are fun, I bet...

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In many ways MUCH better than your own kids!
They come to your house and play, have fun then when you get tired, you send them home! If they get cranky you send them home for a nap.
Love my grandson....but it's nice not to have him 24 hours a day. All the fun and very little of the worries. You don't have to worry when they are sick....their parents take care of it.

It'd be nice if we could read the link without a subscription. So having not read the article, I will say that IF science is making a case for a god using the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, then fine, great, awesome. I know some atheists that would squirm at such a development, but as for myself, my search is for knowledge of the truth, and will be fine with whatever the truth might be.

The issue here is, IS the "god" that science MIGHT be making a case for an omicient, omnipotent, omnipresence that controls all aspects of our universe, past, present, and future, OR is it simply an "unmoved mover" that is more likely merely a causality between an ever growing, ever expanding number universes, or some shite to that effect?

In the search for truth, believe that we are exponentially closer to the beginning that we are to the end. After all, we've only been at this for a million years or so, and in that time, have only been actively and knowingly recording data from our experiences for the last ten thousand years of that span of time.

We've got a long journey ahead of us...buckle up. Onward...

No problem...I've read articles before that made claims to that effect, and I suspect this one isn't much different. Sagan even tackled the issue of the godhead in his Cosmos series, stating that although he was fairly certain that "God" wasnt an old white-bearded man controlling anything and everything, he did have a scientific concept of "God" that was quite plausible.

More:

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“Interviewer: Didn't Sagan want to believe?
Druyan: he didn't want to believe. he wanted to know.” 
-Ann Druyan

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I am not an atheist. An atheist is someone who has compelling evidence that there is no Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. I am not that wise, but neither do I consider there to be anything approaching adequate evidence for such a god. Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?

-Sagan

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