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re: Abortion
Posted on 10/23/14 at 12:25 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 10/23/14 at 12:25 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
If you found out your wife was pregnant today, had a miscarriage tomorrow -- do you really, honestly, truly, deeply feel that you would react the same way as if you lost one of your kids? (I'm assuming you have kids.)
You've been arguing that experience dictates worth, but what you're really saying is that your experience with said kid/fetus/person dictates that person's worth.
And that's...well, good luck with that.
ETA: I used to agree with you, btw, until my wife had a miscarriage. That was about 9 years ago. Terrible experience. We had a funeral and he's laying next to where I'll be one day.
This post was edited on 10/23/14 at 12:30 am
2
Posted on 10/23/14 at 12:35 am to KSGamecock
I say life is expendable, the strong will survive, bring on anarchy and let the Creator sort this shite out when it comes to murdering our fellow beings, we're frickin nothing but animals and as we "progress" that's becoming more evident. 
Poor attempt at sarcasm.
Poor attempt at sarcasm.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 12:41 am to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
ETA: I used to agree with you, btw, until my wife had a miscarriage. That was about 9 years ago. Terrible experience. We had a funeral and he's laying next to where I'll be one day.
So sorry for y'alls loss. It truly is heartwrenching and until someone has experienced a loss like this, it is a hard concept to grasp. Going thru said losses certainly changed how I view this subject. I wish I didn't know what it feels like.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 12:48 am to KSGamecock
BBC.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 12:49 am to Carolina_Girl
quote:
quote:ETA: I used to agree with you, btw, until my wife had a miscarriage. That was about 9 years ago. Terrible experience. We had a funeral and he's laying next to where I'll be one day. So sorry for y'alls loss. It truly is heartwrenching and until someone has experienced a loss like this, it is a hard concept to grasp. Going thru said losses certainly changed how I view this subject. I wish I didn't know what it feels like.
You know something is awry up when a unborn child is a child when it's wanted but a fetus when it's not.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 1:42 am to JoeMoTiger
I always thought Mother Teresa's words to Slick Willy just about said it all on the subject.
If a pregnant mother is injured, say, in the commission of a crime and loses a 3 month child, can the perp be charged in the death of the unborn? In some states you can abort that baby, but how can you charge someone with the death of something that supposedly is just a mass of tissue?
Why should you be able to kill it in an abortion if it is a crime to kill it otherwise?
If a pregnant mother is injured, say, in the commission of a crime and loses a 3 month child, can the perp be charged in the death of the unborn? In some states you can abort that baby, but how can you charge someone with the death of something that supposedly is just a mass of tissue?
Why should you be able to kill it in an abortion if it is a crime to kill it otherwise?
This post was edited on 10/23/14 at 1:46 am
Posted on 10/23/14 at 8:53 am to KSGamecock
quote:
B. Should be legal up until or around the 20th week (no late term abortions)
quote:
2. Life begins...
A very relative question that doesn't really matter. Sure some form of life begins in sperm and the eggs, but that would also mean that I've wasted the lives of hundreds of billions. I don't find it to be an interesting question. Once the baby can feasibly survive outside of the womb, that's when I consider it murder, not before.
quote:
A. Fine, we just see things differently
This post was edited on 10/23/14 at 8:54 am
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:11 am to OMLandshark
A, A, and A.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:30 am to LittleJerrySeinfield
quote:
You've been arguing that experience dictates worth, but what you're really saying is that your experience with said kid/fetus/person dictates that person's worth.
Yes, I am arguing experience dictates worth.
A man who hasn't had his father in his life isn't going to fret over the death of his father as much as a man who has had his father all of his life.
This is like comparing a relationship that never started vs. a five year marriage.
It's the idea, the concept that propels this line of thinking -- what could have been vs. what is.
Experience DOES matter, whether or not people have contemplated its worth is of another topic.
quote:
ETA: I used to agree with you, btw, until my wife had a miscarriage. That was about 9 years ago. Terrible experience. We had a funeral and he's laying next to where I'll be one day.
I've said, now, four times, that both instances suck and are tragic. I'm not devaluing a tragic event, I'm just fairly certain that if one of your kids was struck by a car and killed today that the funeral would be much more devastating.
I've noticed that the only people who claim that they're the same are pro-life, and so I think there is a lot of psychological (emotional) ties to this equation.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:40 am to Carolina_Girl
quote:
Carolina_Girl
&
quote:
LittleJerrySeinfield
So sorry/touched by your stories. Best of luck to you and your families. Only good things. As you well know, you are not alone, but that doesn't make it any easier. It's one of the few things that can't be "set right" while we still breathe.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:43 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
I'm not devaluing a tragic event
In all actuality, you are. You're basically stating what one should feel and how they should react to the death of a child based on your own justification of what constitutes a child and not that individuals.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:52 am to KSGamecock
1. C. Should only be legal in case of rape or if birth could endanger the mother
2. E. At conception
3. A. Fine, we just see things differently
2. E. At conception
3. A. Fine, we just see things differently
Posted on 10/23/14 at 9:52 am to Kentucker
quote:
Every time you masturbate you eliminate approximately 200 million potential babies.
Fertility clinic said I had fewer than average. I used to view this as a problem before we had our kid, but now I guess I should feel morally superior to the rest of the wankers.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:03 am to KSGamecock
D
A
B
so DWI
A
B
so DWI
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:05 am to OMLandshark
quote:
A very relative question that doesn't really matter. Sure some form of life begins in sperm and the eggs, but that would also mean that I've wasted the lives of hundreds of billions. I don't find it to be an interesting question. Once the baby can feasibly survive outside of the womb, that's when I consider it murder, not before.
There isn't a potential for life until fertilization. Until that occurs, you might as well be washing off skin cells. When it occurs, there is actually possibility of life and things change dramatically.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:13 am to Alahunter
quote:
In all actuality, you are. You're basically stating what one should feel and how they should react to the death of a child based on your own justification of what constitutes a child and not that individuals.
In respect to "removing value", no I'm not. It's still tragic, just not as tragic. What is a "child" is subjective (although scientifically objective), what you "feel" is a child is irrelevant until evidence presents itself.
I'm not devaluing God by saying Mormonism is a slightly stupider version of Christianity than the rest. This has objective reasons as to why this is true and is of no consequence to subjectivity.
They're free to say it's the same, but biology, experience and consciousness all suggest otherwise.
I would rather one million fetuses who have the "potential" for life die than my child -- or any child on the planet for that matter.
In fact, the value is so easy to contemplate -- how many people have abortions and really don't feel anything bad about their decision?
How many people have children die and feel bad about the outcome?
I'll wager that the representation is quite lopsided.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:25 am to genro
quote:
You're a pretty nice guy. Fact is, most people would be totally fine with a benevolent dictator.
Yes. Socialism headed by a benevolent dictator is the optimum form of government for humans.
Historically, religions have been trying to achieve this goal. The Catholic Church, headed by the pope, has come closest.
All have failed to this point because the "benevolent" dictator has always been a human, with human failings. Many religions have tried to impose a god or gods as the ultimate Benevolent One, but the deity has always been "represented" by humans, with human failings.
Perhaps the future will see the Benevolent One in the form of a machine built by machines, thereby dispensing with a lot of the human failings.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:36 am to Garfield
quote:
So sorry/touched by your stories. Best of luck to you and your families. Only good things. As you well know, you are not alone, but that doesn't make it any easier. It's one of the few things that can't be "set right" while we still breathe.
Thank you, Garfield. You're right about it not setting right while we breathe. For the longest time, and even now on his birthday and death day and the days leading up to those days and the days after it, breathing just hurts. Everything hurts. But I have 2 other children, so I'm in the drama that is life for the long term. I won't lie and say I never considered suicide right after Kyle died, but I knew that was ultimately the most selfish thing I could do because my surviving children still deserve a mother who hasn't checked out on life.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:37 am to KSGamecock
quote:
A. Should always be legal
Best thing for population control of the demographics that have the highest numbers of abortions. That's the whole real goal anyway.
quote:
2. Life begins...
A. At Birth
Legally this has to be held in order for Abortion Eugenics to be legal.
quote:
3. People who disagree with my opinion on abortion are...
A. Fine, we just see things differently
They either don't understand the purpose of legal abortion or don't care, which is fine by me, they're losing.
Posted on 10/23/14 at 10:45 am to Carolina_Girl
quote:
I won't lie and say I never considered suicide right after Kyle died, but I knew that was ultimately the most selfish thing I could do because my surviving children still deserve a mother who hasn't checked out on life.
Such lucky children to have a mother who is anchored in her love for them. Many happy returns.
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