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re: SEC Program's Bowl Histories. Lets take a look.
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:22 pm to theGarnetWay
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:22 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
You're delusional if you think pre 89 Cotton bowl was a major bowl and the Gator / Tangerine (Cap 1) wasn't.
Look, Im not trying to flame South Carolina. One of the first replies to the thread was from one of your fans which said
quote:
Good thing football didn't start until 2010 for us.
God our history is terrible.
My reply was
quote:
We are not much better.
Look, The Cotton Bowl was a far more prestigious Bowl. It was supposed to become a BCS bowl based on that prestige but politics "happened"
I can take away the Cotton Bowls but what does that really do for you to make things any different?
Like I said, I didnt put this much effort into compiling this data to "flame" USCe man. I was curious to what I would find and thought I would share with the SECr.
I didnt mean to call you out either and for that Im sorry but scrooster is still a dolt.
1
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:24 pm to Infinite Jest
quote:
Interesting. No major bowl from SC? I didn't perceive them as a very good program historically, but this is still surprising. Looks like Mizzou is definitely on another level as a program.
Yep, our history is terrible. Although, I would consider our Cap One appearances in 2011 and this year as major bowls.
Gator Bowl - 4
Outback Bowl - 4
Tangerine/Citrus/Cap One - 3
Peach/Chick-Fil-A - 2
Liberty - 2
Hall of Fame Classic - 1
PapaJohns - 1
Independence - 1
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:26 pm to theGarnetWay
Some of the young'ins are fools
Teams to play in fiesta in 70's:
Oklahoma
Penn St
UCLA
Arkansas
Pittsburgh
Nebraska
All relative 70's powers
80's:
Miami
Ohio state
Michigan
USC
Plus some above
Fiesta has pretty much always been a major bowl, maybe not first 2-3 years but it's been a player for a good long time
The cotton was considered major but lost the status due to the stadium/SWC/$$$$. It's come back which is good
The gator/CapOne(Tangerine) were always second tier with the peach/bluebonnet/hall of game (Outback)
Teams to play in fiesta in 70's:
Oklahoma
Penn St
UCLA
Arkansas
Pittsburgh
Nebraska
All relative 70's powers
80's:
Miami
Ohio state
Michigan
USC
Plus some above
Fiesta has pretty much always been a major bowl, maybe not first 2-3 years but it's been a player for a good long time
The cotton was considered major but lost the status due to the stadium/SWC/$$$$. It's come back which is good
The gator/CapOne(Tangerine) were always second tier with the peach/bluebonnet/hall of game (Outback)
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:27 pm to kilo
quote:
LSU 23-21-1
First Bowl Victory: 1943 Orange Bowl vs Texas A&M
3 BCSNCG 12 Sugar, 4 Orange, 5 Cotton
2*
This post was edited on 12/9/13 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:29 pm to WeBleedCrimson
quote:
2*
Nevermind
This post was edited on 12/9/13 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:39 pm to kilo
quote:
Like I said, I didnt put this much effort into compiling this data to "flame" USCe man
We know our bowl history is terrible, and for all the Gator Bowls and Tangerine bowls I'm mentioning we lost most of them. I think we're 0-4 in the Gator, 1-1 in the Cap 1 (3rd game pending) All I'm saying is if you are going to include non-BCS bowls than the Cap 1 and Gator are historically big bowl games.
And yes, it is sad that we didn't win our first bowl until a minor bowl in 1995, but hey I think we're like 6-4 since joining the SEC so that's not too bad.
This post was edited on 12/9/13 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:42 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
LSU's first bowl victory was the inaugural Bacardi Bowl in Havana Cuba in 1907.
Cool story - thanks
Cool story - thanks
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:43 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
And yes, it is sad that we didn't win our first bowl until a minor bowl in 1995, but hey I think we're like 6-4 since joining the SEC so that's not too bad.
No its not at all.
Good luck in your bowl game against Wisconsin.
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:43 pm to danfraz
The Fiesta was created so Arizona St could play in a bowl. It was played on Christmas Day. It was not a major player until Sunkist in 86 put major money to get Penn State Miami.
The CarQuest/Blockbuster bowl in Miami was on par with the Fiesta in the 90's.
The CarQuest/Blockbuster bowl in Miami was on par with the Fiesta in the 90's.
This post was edited on 12/9/13 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:52 pm to kilo
quote:
No its not at all. Good luck in your bowl game against Wisconsin
You should also understand. I'm 23. I spent 19 years of my life as a Gamecock football fan where getting to a bowl was a success, 8-wins was a banner year, and Clemson beat us 10 out of 12. Imagine trying to defend a program with that resume. As you can imagine Gamecock fans can get pretty defensive, and the last 4 years has made my life a lot easier for us.
This post was edited on 12/9/13 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 12/9/13 at 7:55 pm to kilo
NCAA record wins and appearances. Sorry Ricky, facts. 
Posted on 12/9/13 at 9:06 pm to Mudflap007
quote:
I guess Lane Kiffen's scorched earth policy wiped out my memory of the great pumpkin's reign.
That's Mr. Great Pumpkin to you, Bub! And while the Pumpkin was 'retired' as the winningest active head coach in CFB, gave us many wonderful years, and a title, he was not responsible for making us a powerhouse. That would be like saying Saban made Alabama into one when we all know better. For Tennessee it was General Robert Neyland who made us into a powerhouse -- a coach who was not only considered the best by Knute Rockne (considered the best by the media/fans) but also a West Point grad and genuine hero both on and off the gridiron, having served in both WWI and WWII. He's the one of the few (maybe only?) coaches who is entitled to the titles and styles of General and CBE (he was awarded/honored with "Commander of the British Empire" and could style himself Gen. Robert Neyland, CBE or "Sir Robert" if he'd taken a dual citizenship). He was also awarded the US Distuingished Service Medal and Legion of Merit (twice! he chose the oak leaf cluster in lieu of an additional neck hanger award) and several other awards.
Neyland actually came to UT as an assistant coach and to command our ROTC (well, that coach got sick and missed the UGA game and Neyland proceeded to coach what was deemed the upset of the year in the South -- the old coach resigned and became head coach of a local high school, Neyland became head coach and soon moved up to Dean of Engineering). As all of this weren't enough, in true Paul Bunyon-esque style Neyland was assigned Cheif Engineer for the US Army Corps of Engineers district here and actually dredged and widened the Tennessee snd Cumberland Rivers and oversaw the first surveys for Norris Dam (the first in the TVA project). The Army would then send him to the Panama Canal Zone for a year (breaking his tenure at UT for the first time, after the Canal he retired but WWII would reactivate him and he wouldn't return until after the war).
Also that stadium isn't just named after him. It was designed by him. His designs/engineering plans took Shields-Watkins field from 3,000 to 100,000. He saw it grow to just over 50,000 while still coaching. I'm not kidding either -- his plans were laid out in stages and designed to reach 100,000. It's the house that Neyland built in far more ways than one.
As to coaching, to give you a taste: his first seven seasons, the Vols were 61-2-5. That's batting at damn near 94% (93.4) boys and girls.
Bear Bryant was at Neyland's retirement banquet. His response said it all: "Thank God the old guy finally quit."
Oh and here's a bit of insight into the importance of Neyland and Bryant to college football as we know it and why TSiO became and remains so important to Bama and UT.
LINK
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:05 am to Mudflap007
Well, unless you're 60 years old you would have never heard the words "Ole Miss" and "powerhouse" used in the same sentence. (You get a pass for that one.)
Tennessee, on the other hand, was a consistent top 10 team within the past decade. (Zero excuse for this.)
Tennessee, on the other hand, was a consistent top 10 team within the past decade. (Zero excuse for this.)
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:21 am to sms151t
quote:
The Fiesta was created so Arizona St could play in a bowl. It was played on Christmas Day. It was not a major player until Sunkist in 86 put major money to get Penn State Miami.
The CarQuest/Blockbuster bowl in Miami was on par with the Fiesta in the 90's.
^^^^^^ He gets it.
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:22 am to GetCocky11
Geez I know yall are looking for anything to hang your hats on history wise, but the capital one is not a "major" bowl. It is a nice bowl that has a nice payout, but when you're talking historically and all time against all the other bowls, it is not "major". And UGA has played in several, so I'm not saying that from the angle of us not having been in it before.
Bowls were selected a lot differently before the BCS. Look at 83 for example, Texas was #2 in the country and picked for the Cotton Bowl. That bowl carried a LOT of weight back then. If Texas had won they'd be national champs. No national champion ever is coming out of the capitalone bowl.
Bowls were selected a lot differently before the BCS. Look at 83 for example, Texas was #2 in the country and picked for the Cotton Bowl. That bowl carried a LOT of weight back then. If Texas had won they'd be national champs. No national champion ever is coming out of the capitalone bowl.
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:49 am to kilo
quote:
kilo
Solid thread
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:56 am to WG_Dawg
Historically speaking, and I go back a long ways, there were really only four major bowls ... what we used to refer to as "New Years Day Bowls." There were four that really mattered.
Sugar
Rose
Orange
Cotton
Each of those had traditional ties to the major power conferences AND/OR (and this is important), to hosting MNCs in the day.
The Cotton's hubris and the Big 8's nefarious reputation as a conference of cheaters cost the Cotton a great deal of respectability with the advent of the BCS System. Both were almost declared persona non grata by the rest of the NCAA's membership for a period of time.
The Cotton also lacked the pomp and circumstance of the other bowls who had festivals and parades leading up to the bowl ... whereas no one was particularly interested in the Cotton Bowl Parade or Cotton Festival ... so TV basically ignored it as well and that hurt the Cotton.
There are too many bowls these days - it has become ridiculous. Most programs lose money traveling to bowls - or, at best, break even. The SEC's sharing of revenues policy helps to off-set that for this conference, but still, most other conferences lose money in the overall scheme of things when it comes to bowls ... and some times, a lot of money. (Because of guaranteed ticket allotments.)
The Fiesta was a Johnny come lately big bowl that really upped its worth within the BCS System ... and the Cap One, formerly the Citrus, upped its worth with the SEC deal.
The Peach, now the Chick-fil-A, has cut a deal to be part of the new playoff system that is going to cause its value to rise substantially. Give credit to both Truitt Cathy and the City of Atlanta for pulling that off - because without Truitt Cathy's influence and without the City of Atlanta agreeing to build the new showcase stadium it probably would not have happened. My point being, that as of next year, the Chick-fil-a Bowl will have to be considered one of the six or seven big bowls and thus ... are we going to rewrite a bowl's worth historically or, as we should, only refer to a particular bowl as a major bowl when the term actually applies to a given period of time?
Sugar
Rose
Orange
Cotton
Each of those had traditional ties to the major power conferences AND/OR (and this is important), to hosting MNCs in the day.
The Cotton's hubris and the Big 8's nefarious reputation as a conference of cheaters cost the Cotton a great deal of respectability with the advent of the BCS System. Both were almost declared persona non grata by the rest of the NCAA's membership for a period of time.
The Cotton also lacked the pomp and circumstance of the other bowls who had festivals and parades leading up to the bowl ... whereas no one was particularly interested in the Cotton Bowl Parade or Cotton Festival ... so TV basically ignored it as well and that hurt the Cotton.
There are too many bowls these days - it has become ridiculous. Most programs lose money traveling to bowls - or, at best, break even. The SEC's sharing of revenues policy helps to off-set that for this conference, but still, most other conferences lose money in the overall scheme of things when it comes to bowls ... and some times, a lot of money. (Because of guaranteed ticket allotments.)
The Fiesta was a Johnny come lately big bowl that really upped its worth within the BCS System ... and the Cap One, formerly the Citrus, upped its worth with the SEC deal.
The Peach, now the Chick-fil-A, has cut a deal to be part of the new playoff system that is going to cause its value to rise substantially. Give credit to both Truitt Cathy and the City of Atlanta for pulling that off - because without Truitt Cathy's influence and without the City of Atlanta agreeing to build the new showcase stadium it probably would not have happened. My point being, that as of next year, the Chick-fil-a Bowl will have to be considered one of the six or seven big bowls and thus ... are we going to rewrite a bowl's worth historically or, as we should, only refer to a particular bowl as a major bowl when the term actually applies to a given period of time?
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:59 am to WG_Dawg
The Cotton prior to the BCS was absolutely a major bowl because it was the host of the SWC Champion. That was the definition prior to the BCS, the bowls that hosted the champions of the SEC (Sugar), SWC (Cotton), Big 8 (Orange), and of Pac/Big 10 (Rose, which was called the "Grandaddy of them all" in part because it was the only one that hosted 2 Conference Champions). For a long time those were the only New Year's Day games. I remember reading the Dallas Morning News the morning of the '86 Cotton Bowl (A&M/Auburn with Bo) and it talked about how the Cotton Bowl was the largest annual event in DFW at the time, I was very excited to watch the Cotton Bowl Parade that morning which was a big deal at the time.
The old system sucked because you almost never got 2 Conference Champs playing each other. You also would have the Orange taking Miami every year to play Nebraska/OU for instance with Nebraska/OU as the "home" team. The Fiesta managed to break through in the late '80s and early '90s by offering big payouts and getting lucky on some really good games and matchups. It was also one of the first "Non Majors" to play on New Years Day. At the same time the Cotton had fallen off with a crappy stadium and lack of leadership, several cold weather games, and of course the loss of prestige of the SWC. When the BCS formed it was replaced by the Fiesta.
Up until the last few years the SWC was absolutely a legit conference as well. A&M's 3 Cotton's in the early '90s were also absolutely major bowls, in '93 it was a #3 A&M vs a #5 Notre Dame for instance.
The Cotton post BCS hasn't been a major bowl, since then it has been like a significant but still 2nd Tier bowl. The move to Jerryworld has upped its exposure though and that is why it is in the Playoff, it now has the best overall venue of any bowl from a luxury standpoint.
So in short, the Cottons from '95 on aren't majors but prior to that they absolutely were.
The old system sucked because you almost never got 2 Conference Champs playing each other. You also would have the Orange taking Miami every year to play Nebraska/OU for instance with Nebraska/OU as the "home" team. The Fiesta managed to break through in the late '80s and early '90s by offering big payouts and getting lucky on some really good games and matchups. It was also one of the first "Non Majors" to play on New Years Day. At the same time the Cotton had fallen off with a crappy stadium and lack of leadership, several cold weather games, and of course the loss of prestige of the SWC. When the BCS formed it was replaced by the Fiesta.
Up until the last few years the SWC was absolutely a legit conference as well. A&M's 3 Cotton's in the early '90s were also absolutely major bowls, in '93 it was a #3 A&M vs a #5 Notre Dame for instance.
The Cotton post BCS hasn't been a major bowl, since then it has been like a significant but still 2nd Tier bowl. The move to Jerryworld has upped its exposure though and that is why it is in the Playoff, it now has the best overall venue of any bowl from a luxury standpoint.
So in short, the Cottons from '95 on aren't majors but prior to that they absolutely were.
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:06 am to kilo
Georgia will catch Tenn. this year for the 2nd most bowl appearances...interesting.
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:15 am to aggressor
quote:
So in short, the Cottons from '95 on aren't majors but prior to that they absolutely were.
And I think that dovetails nicely with what scrooster was saying. Starting next year, you can absolutely count the Peach as a major bowl, but you couldn't now.
USC's bowl history is atrocious. I think we all agree on that. The ACC years were relegated to being third-class citizens, and we wandered in the desert for 20 years as independents. We're second-class citizens in the SEC, and likely always will be, but at least we're scratching and clawing to become nationally relevant. If we can ever get over the hump and win an SEC/national title, I'm sure it will be explained away, etc., but whatever. Being here beats the alternative.
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