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A&M - Bama 2012 and JFF vs. the Zone Defense
Posted on 7/31/13 at 11:10 pm
Posted on 7/31/13 at 11:10 pm
I still can't believe Bama basically refused to give up man-to-man in favor of Zone and dared JFF to be accurate. It seemed like the best defense against him was a 3-3-5 with a zone blitz. I think Smart/Saban gave up on the zone when JFF hit Swope after the bobble, since they started having success blitzing 5 with man-to-man. I don't know why they didn't keep blitzing every down, but I know they rushed just 4 when he hit the flag route TD to go up 12 in the 4th. Smart stopped blitzing as much in the 4th, and A&M got 2 scores out of it (0 pts. in the 2nd and 3rd.)
Do y'all think Saban/Smart stick to their trademark man-to-man this year? If they do, I think A&M's got a great chance. I think you have to force Manziel to place the ball into a window downfield and hope he's off (a la LSU). You can't just wait for his receivers to beat you in Man the one time you don't blitz. They will.
Can any A&M guys can tell me if OU played zone against y'all in the Cotton Bowl? Or if JFF faced an opponent other than LSU and Florida that mixed in a lot of zone blitzes and three man fronts and still got whooped?
Do y'all think Saban/Smart stick to their trademark man-to-man this year? If they do, I think A&M's got a great chance. I think you have to force Manziel to place the ball into a window downfield and hope he's off (a la LSU). You can't just wait for his receivers to beat you in Man the one time you don't blitz. They will.
Can any A&M guys can tell me if OU played zone against y'all in the Cotton Bowl? Or if JFF faced an opponent other than LSU and Florida that mixed in a lot of zone blitzes and three man fronts and still got whooped?
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Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:12 am to madddoggydawg
(no message)
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:15 am to madddoggydawg
Alabama will beat the shite out of A&M this year. Manziel has a problem and cant seem to get his shite together.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:17 am to madddoggydawg
quote:
I still can't believe Bama basically refused to give up man-to-man in favor of Zone and dared JFF to be accurate.
JFF hadn't really proved he was the most accurate QB yet. Limited by the coaches in the UF game, and LSU picked him off regularly. It was the correct call at that point in the year, JFF just came up big in the clutch.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:17 am to NeverRains
quote:
Alabama will beat the shite out of A&M this year. Manziel has a problem and cant seem to get his shite together.
There is nothing football-relevant in this post.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:20 am to NeverRains
quote:Let the record show that this was posted by an LSU fan, not and Alabama fan.
Alabama will beat the shite out of A&M this year. Manziel has a problem and cant seem to get his shite together.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:22 am to mwlewis
quote:
Let the record show that this was posted by an LSU fan, not and Alabama fan.
Duly noted.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:33 am to TbirdSpur2010
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he correct call at that point in the year, JFF just came up big in the clutch.
Right, but JFF had had success against other teams by that point, so it seemed like Smart/Saban respected him less than Chavis and Quinn/Muschamp, and stuck to their scheme rather than adjust to do what frustrates JFF.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:39 am to madddoggydawg
Our biggest problem against a/m last year was Vinnie S playing in the slot, he was torched all day long. We had nobody ready better that knew the D, which surprised me a great deal, finally after the LSU game that put Geno Smith in that position. Vinnie is a great player but he has limits and coverage is his weakness not good for a DB.. I think we will play zone and see how A/M does with that. They have new wide outs so they have to read zone coverage to, then they will bring the heat...JMO
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:50 am to madddoggydawg
I think the main problem with man-to-man vs. zone against JFF is not so much the coverage, but him taking off and running against man-to-man when the DB's have their backs turned to him. The long run against MSU is a good example.
LSU did a great job at containing him and also not allowing any big plays, but I'm not sure whether that was because of scheme or superior athletes.
LSU did a great job at containing him and also not allowing any big plays, but I'm not sure whether that was because of scheme or superior athletes.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:51 am to bamalee
To follow up, I was at the game and on Manziel's last TD pass play, Sunseri literally tackled Swope from behind, he was beat so bad. You can barely see it on the top of the screen if you watch the replay.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 1:54 am to finestfirst79
quote:
I think the main problem with man-to-man vs. zone against JFF is not so much the coverage, but him taking off and running against man-to-man when the DB's have their backs turned to him. The long run against MSU is a good example.
Bingo. You kind of have to pick your poison with Manziel. There's no magic bullet to beat him.
quote:
LSU did a great job at containing him and also not allowing any big plays, but I'm not sure whether that was because of scheme or superior athletes.
LSU had a great scheme, but their athleticism was what gave JFF more fits. That and the fact that neither Manziel nor the coaches had as much faith in JFF's passing ability until later in the year.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 5:07 am to madddoggydawg
Florida just held their ground on defense the second half once they saw what the Aggies did. Dared Johnny to beat them over top. Zone and gap blitz it seemed were very effective. Then the zone just move with Manziel. Florida still rushed four I believe the whole game though. We said we were going to 3-4 but really we used a Dline as the buck most of the year cause Powell got hurt. That or I have no clue what I'm talking about...either way :).
Posted on 8/1/13 at 7:11 am to madddoggydawg
I started rewatching the game yesterday for the first time since it happened. It was just one of those games where the ball kept bouncing A&M's way, at least in the first quarter.
Our new OC didn't call a particularly good game, at least not early on. Smart has said he wishes they'd pressured Manziel more. A tipped pass for an INT. A no-call when one of our DB's got held and let Manziel break off a long run. JFF fumbling the damn ball to himself then throwing for a TD when the defense reacted. Fumbles. ETC. ETC.
All of these are things that happen in football. It's just that this was one of those games where they all happened at once, and Bama couldn't overcome it. If it had been against a bad team, they probably could have still won, but A&M was pretty good, and were going to be hard enough to beat if things were going right.
Our new OC didn't call a particularly good game, at least not early on. Smart has said he wishes they'd pressured Manziel more. A tipped pass for an INT. A no-call when one of our DB's got held and let Manziel break off a long run. JFF fumbling the damn ball to himself then throwing for a TD when the defense reacted. Fumbles. ETC. ETC.
All of these are things that happen in football. It's just that this was one of those games where they all happened at once, and Bama couldn't overcome it. If it had been against a bad team, they probably could have still won, but A&M was pretty good, and were going to be hard enough to beat if things were going right.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 7:19 am to Teague
quote:
A no-call when one of our DB's got held and let Manziel break off a long run
A Bama fan crying about not calling holding??? :mindblown:
I kid! I kid!
Posted on 8/1/13 at 7:56 am to LSUsuperfresh
JFF passing and accuracy got better every game. After watching the spring game, and from some of the reports, it seems like his passing is only getting better.
Man to Man is tough for a defense, because as long as he can extend plays it's tough for the defender to run with their guy when the play breaks down and they take off getting open with JFF running circles back there.
Man to Man is tough for a defense, because as long as he can extend plays it's tough for the defender to run with their guy when the play breaks down and they take off getting open with JFF running circles back there.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 10:12 am to finestfirst79
quote:
Our biggest problem against a/m last year was Vinnie S playing in the slot, he was torched all day long.
This is interesting, although honestly I think the kid can play, but it seemed like your problem was you went Man against Evans and Swope and lost no matter who was guarding them. Evans beats one-on-one 2 out of 3 times even with Millner on him.
quote:
I think the main problem with man-to-man vs. zone against JFF is not so much the coverage, but him taking off and running against man-to-man when the DB's have their backs turned to him.
Yes, I forgot to mention Bama's Man also paved the way for a big day for JFF on the ground (92 yds rushing compared to 27 yds against more zone, 3 man fronts of LSU), although they still contained him pretty well once they started blitzing.
quote:Both. LSU couldn't have done it without speed (good luck beating Mingo to the sideline), but we bailed out of our typical 4-3 Man scheme after 2 A&M TDs. Switching to a 3 man front seemed to help against the interior run. I scratch my head when Bama put a LB's hand in the dirt every down, when the zone-blitzes from a true 3 man-front seemed to make JFF hesitate that one extra second.
LSU did a great job at containing him and also not allowing any big plays, but I'm not sure whether that was because of scheme or superior athletes.
My point being, I think Bama contained JFF in spite of their scheme. They were fine blitzing with superior athletes, but the moment they stopped JFF put 2 scores on them to win the game in the 4th. They just didn't make JFF do it the hard way because Man defense allowed big plays basically all game unless they sacked Manziel. He threw for almost 200 yds more than Mettenberger but that was all nullified by 3 INTs (0 INTs vs. Bama). I'm just saying you gotta try the zone until he beats it. If you don't, you're setting JFF up for 2 in-a-row.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 10:12 am to NeverRains
quote:
Alabama will beat the shite out of A&M this year
:kige:
Posted on 8/1/13 at 10:27 am to Teague
quote:
Our new OC didn't call a particularly good game, at least not early on.
His playcalling was fine--McCarron had a couple missed throws on the first 3 Bama drives, though. He was better when he settled down.
quote:
A tipped pass for an INT.
That was a pick that A&M earned. Completely fooled McCarron into throwing into what he thought was the open spot in a cover 2 look. Aggies shifted to a cover 3 after the snap. That was a third down pass, too. It wasn't getting completed anyway, and the short INT return was tantamount to what could have been a solid return on a Bama punt.
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A no-call when one of our DB's got held and let Manziel break off a long run.
There were no-calls on the other side, too. Mike Evans (our WR #13) was getting mugged all game.
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JFF fumbling the damn ball to himself then throwing for a TD when the defense reacted.
That was the one "lucky" play of the game, IMO. Just so happened to go for a score.
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Fumbles.
ONE fumble. And again, a turnover that A&M forced. If Yeldon holds onto the ball and goes down, that would have been about a 7 yard gain in A&M territory. But Steven Terrel STRIPPED him of the ball, and did so violently.
quote:
ETC. ETC.
All of these are things that happen in football. It's just that this was one of those games where they all happened at once
No. Quit pretending that this was some fluke game A&M won. The Aggies beat y'all straight up, no excuses.
Posted on 8/1/13 at 10:37 am to TbirdSpur2010
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His playcalling was fine
According to you, some guy who was probably watching his first Bama game. quote:
That was a pick that A&M earned.
I didn't say he didn't deserve it. But, if you want to rely on well-thrown balls going off of Bama's WR's hands and into your DB's hands, then you have a poor gameplan.
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There were no-calls on the other side, too.
I'm sure there were.
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That was the one "lucky" play of the game, IMO. Just so happened to go for a score.
Yes, no luck anywhere else, on either side.
quote:
ONE fumble. And again, a turnover that A&M forced. If Yeldon holds onto the ball and goes down, that would have been about a 7 yard gain in A&M territory. But Steven Terrel STRIPPED him of the ball, and did so violently.
Yes, one fumble, and two INT's. Like I said, shite happens, but that's a lot of turnovers compared to most games by Bama. They lost 12 fumbles and had 3 INT's all year.
quote:
Quit pretending that this was some fluke game A&M won. The Aggies beat y'all straight up, no excuses.
I think A&M deserved to win. I just don't think they could do it 2 out of 3 times. This post was edited on 8/1/13 at 10:38 am
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