Started By
Message
Vaccine Question
Posted on 4/22/15 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 7:34 pm
Could someone explain these charts.
I'm pro vaccine, through and through.
But something seems odd about these figures.
I'm pro vaccine, through and through.
But something seems odd about these figures.
8
Posted on 4/22/15 at 7:36 pm to hipgnosis
retraction:
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:07 pm to hipgnosis
You need to link the source of the data.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:10 pm to hipgnosis
Note that these are deaths per million - not just # of cases.
Reducing the number of deaths caused by a disease can happen with any epidemic without the use of a vaccine. Improvements in medicine, sanitation, overcrowding in houses, etc.. can all help reduce mortality and these improvements were really stepping up as we went from the late 1800s to the mid 1900s.
The anti-vaxers like to point these types of graphs out but will never show you the incidence graphs which show that certain diseases have been eradicated once the vaccine was introduced.
Reducing the number of deaths caused by a disease can happen with any epidemic without the use of a vaccine. Improvements in medicine, sanitation, overcrowding in houses, etc.. can all help reduce mortality and these improvements were really stepping up as we went from the late 1800s to the mid 1900s.
The anti-vaxers like to point these types of graphs out but will never show you the incidence graphs which show that certain diseases have been eradicated once the vaccine was introduced.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:19 pm to AubieALUMdvm
quote:
Reducing the number of deaths caused by a disease can happen with any epidemic without the use of a vaccine.
That's the point.
It appears as if these diseases were drastically cut down thanks to other societal progressions before the vaccine came into being.
quote:
graphs which show that certain diseases have been eradicated once the vaccine was introduced.
If the disease was eradicated before the vaccine, what would a graph showing an eradicated disease post vaccine prove?
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:36 pm to hipgnosis
There ars two different polo vaccines, the Sabin (attenuated, oral) and Salk (inactivated, injection). The Sabin OPV is more effective at generating long term immunity due to the bodies superior reaction to live antigens but carries the risk of converting to full blown polio virus in the young and immunocompromised. Countries with high incidence initially used the OPV due to its superior immunogenicity until enough people were inoculated that the risk outweighed the benefit and they switched to the Salk vaccine familiar to people in this part of the world. This practice generated a transient spike in polio in the early 60s, predominantly in third world countries where many elderly people who had weakened immune systems received the vaccine. If you look at the death distribution by age of that spuke, the average victim was nearly twice the age of traditional polio death victims.
In short, this is a case where an ignorance of biology leads to false interpretations of data.
In short, this is a case where an ignorance of biology leads to false interpretations of data.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:39 pm to hipgnosis
goddammit, tried to edit and submitted it blank.
Summary: Polio vaccine started before 1957, graph lies about dates.
Summary: Polio vaccine started before 1957, graph lies about dates.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:40 pm to Roger Klarvin
Summary -- there are two different polio vaccines.
Response -- what does two different polio vaccines have to do with the fact polio was virtually wiped out before any polio vaccine existed?
Response -- what does two different polio vaccines have to do with the fact polio was virtually wiped out before any polio vaccine existed?
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:41 pm to Roger Klarvin
Mandatory vaccines in Britain started before the chart says, FWIW.
Eta: for smallpox.
Eta: for smallpox.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:42 pm to the808bass
This board's vaccination fixation is quite strange
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 8:43 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:43 pm to hipgnosis
The answer to why the graph looks the way it does is because it lies about the date
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:44 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Additionlly, the chart is just flat out wrong. People were being vaccinated against polio in large numbers decades prior to 1957 when it claims vaccination began. We've known about polio vaccination since the 18th century, and even the official worldwide campaign to eradicate polio started 7 years prior to the graphs claim. Oddly enough, polio began to decrease significantly less than a year after the program began in 1950. Crazy how that works.
History.com (legit, eh?)
On this day in 1954, a group of children from Arsenal Elementary School in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, receive the first injections of the new polio vaccine developed by Dr. Jonas Salk.
Wiki, bro
Two polio vaccines are used throughout the world to combat poliomyelitis (or polio). The first was developed by Jonas Salk through the use of HeLa cells and first tested in 1952.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:49 pm to hipgnosis
I apologize, the 1950 date was for smallpox. We began vaccinating widespread in the first world for polio in 1954.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:49 pm to hipgnosis
quote:
before the vaccine
I didn't say before.
I said once the vaccine was introduced - it's obvious i meant that after it was introduced.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:51 pm to Roger Klarvin
Excellent edit, Nurse Klarvin.
My post about 1954 being the start of vaccination was mighty inconvenient for yours that said 1950.
I would have deleted it too.
My post about 1954 being the start of vaccination was mighty inconvenient for yours that said 1950.
I would have deleted it too.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:52 pm to hipgnosis
Again, I apologize. I got the dates for polio and smallpox confused. Doesnt change the fact that millions had received the polio vaccine prior to 1957.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:52 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
We began vaccinating widespread in the first world for polio in 1954.
At which time polio had virtually been eradicated, oui?
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:57 pm to hipgnosis
Polio infected 28,000 and killed 1,300 people in the US in 1954. Hardly eradicated.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 8:58 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 8:58 pm to hipgnosis
quote:
That's the point.
It appears as if these diseases were drastically cut down thanks to other societal progressions before the vaccine came into being.
No, it appears as if the mortality associated with the diseases were drastically cut down - something vaccines do not do. Show me the graph of morbidity of all 4 diseases
Posted on 4/22/15 at 9:09 pm to hipgnosis
Interesting fact: those diseases have other bad side effects than death.
Now GTFO.
Now GTFO.
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News