re: The importance of student debt to the consumerist economy

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The personal hero story.

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Except there's nothing hero about it, his personal scenario isn't extraordinary at all.

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Do you HAVE to go to grad school?

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That is the question

Certainly if law, medicine, and research are your life's passion. Grad school is a must

Even in things like social work and teaching, a masters has become the new minimum.

As for some folks, like the philosophy majors, I think we need to adopt the eastern model in favor of the western one but do not want to distract the thread too much.


Here is the bigger question…
We have only 10 "free" institutions of higher learning in america, and half of those military academies (Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and Merchant Marine) leaving only 5. Of those 5 two are in Kentucky of all places. Of the 2 in Kentucky one has a bigger endowment than the University of Kentucky OR the University of Louisville.

This university was not well endowed but grew their endowment from modest means. On the other side of the equation they control costs old scottish bankers would have appreciated. Granted part of your "tuition" is working 10 - 20 hours a week in a student job, it gives the kids work experience and since all kids work, you have no "loafer" subclass in the system.

… now my question
Why do more colleges and universities operate this way?

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His reasoning goes against everything you see in history. Its only when people are truly crushed by the system that they rise up motivated for something better.

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Do you even history bro?

Rome collapsed from within a good century before the barbarians breached the walls of Rome.

China was dead for several generations by a ruling class trapped in the Forbidden city.

None of those folks rose up even tho the poor were trying to buy the dead human flesh from the Roman "games" just to keep from starving. They just existed until the raider from outside came and subjucated them under a different flag from a different place.

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Students under crippling debt are *MORE* likely to be motivated to change the society and structure.

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Yeah, if you believe this, I have some swampland for sale.

Once the load gets too big, they just drop out and stop paying. I lived through civil rights and those under 40 have no clue on organizing in mass to change that which already exists. Use college sports as your canary in the coal mine. Kids are dropping out, not fighting for their seats in the stadiums and arenas. When you see an AD bitch about falling attendance it is never followed with dropping the cost of attendance to sow the seeds for the next generation.

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that's just not true. i've told my story on here numerous times. i had no money for school. i chose not to go to an expensive school. i worked a 40+ hour weeks. i took 3,6, and 9 hour semesters. i didn't have nice things, i didn't eat out, i didn't go on fun vacations.

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and there are plenty of people who did the exact same thing as you, but did have to take out loans.

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The correct response is "you don't have to go to college". More specifically, "many people who go to college shouldn't".

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What a selfish line of thinking. There are some outstanding people who are doing great things who had to take out loans to get through school.

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The lack of self-awareness and foresight in young people is a huge reason for thestudent debt problem.

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Idk about huge. I'd say something that is measurable, like the fact that the average annual cost of tuition has increased 6% higher than inflation, would be considered a "huge" reason.. That's highway robbery at it's finest.

I mean, just look at this figure.

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At public, four-year schools, tuition and fees cost about $9,139 this year. In the 1971 school year, they added up to less than $500 in current dollars, according to the College Board.

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Say all you want about folks taking out loans. It's a personal decision that is used and abused, I'll agree. But this is the real reason student loan debt is so high, and to say otherwise is nonsensical.

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it took me 4.5 years to graduate and i went to summer school every single year, took a lot of night classes so i could work during the day, to make up for the lean fall/springs. and took 18 and 21 hour terms my last two semesters. i struggled through the first 2.5 years making $5.15, and that was where the less than full time hours came in. after i got a promotion to $8, i was able to save up and load up the last two semesters. out of 9 semesters, i was a part time student for 2 of them.

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Cool, man. Thanks for the story. But people shouldn't have to go through this sort of hell to be able to further their education. It hasn't always been that way and it's changeable.

This attitude of "well I did it, so anyone can/should do it" is asinine!

I worked at a bar until 2-3 AM on weekends throughout college. I took summer classes. I interned while also working a part time job in the summer. I sold weed on the side to my buddies. I almost quit college, idk, maybe half a dozen times. All this to pay my bills, which partially included tuition. But I eventually had to take out a few loans.

I don't know about you, but I don't want my kids, or any other kids, to have to go through college that way. It's not necessary for success.

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There are plenty of colleges do not require asinine levels of debt

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College I went to was reasonable at the time. Tuition went up by nearly $1000 each goddamn semester I was there though.

So is everyone in this thread really saying this issue is on the students only?

Statistics show that student loan debt and tuition increases are directly correlated.

What should happen, is that student loans shouldn't be so easily accessible. It took me all of 20 minutes to take out the loan I needed in college. Luckily, my parents taught me the basics of managing my finances so I knew not to take out more than I needed for tuition and a meal plan.

Not to mention the government is backing 90% of the $120 billion in student loans taken out in 2012. Hell, if I owned a product that I knew the government would lend to the vast amount of my customers who applied, I'd make my product expensive.

It's a people problem, it's a university problem, and it's a government problem. But to say it's the problem of folks who are taking out these loans, and their fault exclusively, is disingenuous IMO.

Tuition has also gone up as state funding as dropped. A lot of the student loan boom is shifting the cost from the overall tax payer pool to the student.

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why so? I'd say the opposite is true. Maybe the opposite isn't "asinine" per se, but it's stinking thinking at best.

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Because it's not necessary, is why. Tuition doesn't have to rise faster than inflation. Student loans don't have to be mostly backed by the government. It's not that I don't think working your way through college isn't worth it, or that there isn't value in that experience. It's that it doesn't have to be so damn expensive!

I learned a lot working my way through school, but there were plenty of times that I had to work 'til close at the bar on a night I could have spent studying for midterms/finals. College is meant to teach you a set of skills in a field that you can then take with you to make a career. It's not meant to be an experience that forces someone to choose work over studying, because you have to pay tuition. That's completely counter-intuitive!

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But people shouldn't have to go through this sort of hell to be able to further their education

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The stupidity of this statement is just astounding. People should do whatever they need to do to get where they want.