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Super Conferences

Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:07 am
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:07 am
All the Oklahoma talk yesterday got me excited to drum up this discussion again.

I think that everyone can agree, that UVA is the crown jewel, especially to the B1G. North Carolina/Duke is another big fish. Both the B1G and the SEC would likely take those teams in a heartbeat. Problem is, the ACC is likely not going anywhere.

There are so many barriers. ESPN has a vested interest in making sure that the SEC and ACC are alive and thriving simultaneously. GOR, the whole story. The B1G/Fox, doesn't have the ESPN problem with the ACC. They can continue to lure those squads because they have no worries if the ACC survives or not.

The ACC survival depends upon UVA, UNC, and Florida State. It might be able to survive if 1 leaves, but not 2.

The more likely of scenarios, is the Big 12 implosion/raids. Again, not saying that these schools are more valuable, just that they are more likely to move conferences. If 1 or two teams start to move, I think the entire conference collapses.

Let's talk about the major and minor players.
MAJOR:

Texas: Everyone knows the story. They could be a legit option for all 4 remaining conferences, with a set up like ND possible, or just strait independent. We all know about their baggage, but everyone would take them with a few concessions on the Horns part. IMO, the PAC is the most likely, as there are no more big fish for the PAC to snag, and if everyone is going to 16, they need to stay viable. SEC and ACC are next. SEC is obvious, and ACC could see a ND set up.

Oklahoma: Not as tied to Texas as everyone thinks. Definitely some baggage, but more leeway with the Sooners. Could become an AAU school (for B1G). I see SEC as option 1, PAC as option 2. B1G is a 3rd option, but I don't see it happening without kansas or someone else first.

kansas: Not because they have a lot of options, but because they could be the first domino. B1G is a clear option, while ACC also might be a possibility. Have AAU, and I'm not sure they are as tied to KState as other baggage schools.

Minor:

Iowa State: No one knows what to do with these guys. I'm not sure the B1G wants them, and I'm not sure where else they would go. A minor player in the fact that they could take up a valuable spot from another baggage school.

TTech/Baylor/TCU: Probably a PAC with the Horns or bust. Texas politics....Go.

Missouri/Vandy: Mostly Missouri here. Despite perceived happiness in SEC, the no buyout makes them a potential target. I have seen the idea floated that the B1G would poach these 2 schools from the SEC. If the B1G can re-up their TV contract and $, they become a viable option for both these schools.

UConn: Could be headed to B1G or ACC. A player for sure.

Conference Round Up

Pac: I really don't know where else they can go besides Texas/Oklahoma if expanding becomes necessary. Low on options.

ACC: Their best strategy, suck up to ESPN. They are their lifeline/lifeblood. Would be special if they could land Texas in ND-style deal. Uconn and kansas are also options for a 16th school. ESPN won't let their brother networks take each other down.

SEC: plenty of options. Assuming all ACC schools are out. Oklahoma schools, Texas schools. I've seen kansas thrown out there (I REALLY doubt that). Not as many options as we think, especially if the ACC stays intact.

B1G: Options on options. Assuming ACC is out. Could swoop on SEC (Missouri/Vandy), Iowa State, kansas (maybe both), Oklahoma, Texas, Uconn. Have said they might go to 20...so who knows?

This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 10:12 am
Posted by Rebel Land Shark
Member since Jul 2013
30162 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:22 am to
Wrong board
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:10 am to
MSB wasn't having it, thread got locked.
Posted by TheDude321
Member since Sep 2005
3154 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:41 am to
quote:

Problem is, the ACC is likely not going anywhere.


Doesn't the ACC now have a buy-out clause? No way any team can leave now without getting sued big time. Some schools may desire to leave because of the UNC basketball bias that their league office has, but the legal issues will supersede that desire.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 11:00 am to
quote:

There are so many barriers. ESPN has a vested interest in making sure that the SEC and ACC are alive and thriving simultaneously. GOR, the whole story. The B1G/Fox, doesn't have the ESPN problem with the ACC. They can continue to lure those squads because they have no worries if the ACC survives or not.


Does ESPN really benefit from the ACC/SEC both being strong?

They have to know that they are paying for a lot of the same real estate twice. What I mean is, they pay the SEC for the states of Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida, then turn around and pay the ACC for the same media market access. There isn't another area (besides Iowa and Texas now) that ESPN shells out twice. If I'm ESPN, I want to encourage ACC disintegration because then I'm not paying for the same area twice. Maybe.

quote:

The ACC survival depends upon UVA, UNC, and Florida State. It might be able to survive if 1 leaves, but not 2.



I'd throw GT and VT into that mix as well. Either one would signal a shift/loss. GT would cause the ACC to lose Georgia media markets on its bargaining power (yes they are a small fraction compared to UGA).

What is good for the conferences is bad for ESPN/Fox IMO. Conferences want more money for content, the channels want cheaper content. The conferences benefit from splitting the south east, the channels lose.

quote:

Texas: Everyone knows the story. They could be a legit option for all 4 remaining conferences, with a set up like ND possible, or just strait independent. We all know about their baggage, but everyone would take them with a few concessions on the Horns part. IMO, the PAC is the most likely, as there are no more big fish for the PAC to snag, and if everyone is going to 16, they need to stay viable. SEC and ACC are next. SEC is obvious, and ACC could see a ND set up.


Texas isn't going anywhere but independent. You are right that with concessions, the horns could go anywhere. They just won't give concessions.

quote:

Oklahoma: Not as tied to Texas as everyone thinks. Definitely some baggage, but more leeway with the Sooners. Could become an AAU school (for B1G). I see SEC as option 1, PAC as option 2. B1G is a 3rd option, but I don't see it happening without kansas or someone else first.


Oklahoma is NOT going to ever be AAU. That isn't how the schools is set up. Beautiful campus, but they aren't a research school. They also have the unique problem of their biggest media market being out of state; in a state that A&M already brings. There is also the problem of OSU, who is virtually worthless. OU really has no choice but to cleave to Texas, where ever they go. If that's indy, I don't know what they would do.

quote:

kansas: Not because they have a lot of options, but because they could be the first domino. B1G is a clear option, while ACC also might be a possibility. Have AAU, and I'm not sure they are as tied to KState as other baggage schools.



Kansas is very tied to KSU, and they have no media market or solid following. If the B12 breaks up, I see them joining the MWC with KSU, there isn't another home for them.

quote:

Iowa State: No one knows what to do with these guys. I'm not sure the B1G wants them, and I'm not sure where else they would go. A minor player in the fact that they could take up a valuable spot from another baggage school.



Iowa state might not even stay FBS if the B12 dies. They have some of the worst history of any FBS school, counting the MAC and C-USA schools. They would do better in FCS.

quote:

TTech/Baylor/TCU: Probably a PAC with the Horns or bust. Texas politics....Go.


Baylor is the scared woman with a gun in the corner. No one knows if she has any bullets though. TCU is worthless and Tech isn't much better. TCU would be better off as an FCS school. CUSA or MWC is their best bet.

quote:

Missouri/Vandy: Mostly Missouri here. Despite perceived happiness in SEC, the no buyout makes them a potential target. I have seen the idea floated that the B1G would poach these 2 schools from the SEC. If the B1G can re-up their TV contract and $, they become a viable option for both these schools.



Neither school is going anywhere, especially Vandy. Vandy commands very little following, which makes them a low target for anyone else. However, they are very valuable to the SEC due to being the only private school (shields the SEC conference from a LOT of federal requirements by making it a 'private' association). What does Missouri have to gain by leaving? Nothing.

quote:

UConn: Could be headed to B1G or ACC. A player for sure.


No major market and no history. They might get picked up by an ACC looking for new blood if they lose a virginia school, but not likely.

quote:

Pac: I really don't know where else they can go besides Texas/Oklahoma if expanding becomes necessary. Low on options.



Boise is a potential if they keep up their program for sufficient time to build a base. Idaho has some paltry media markets, but as was said: the options are slim. Maybe add CSU as well? Again, paltry. I would have said Hawaii is a possibility before their president started running his mouth about cancelling football. Programs that want to be at the adult table don't do that. Texas and OU would be the best bets, or even just Texas and Texas Tech. Like I said, OU is worthless, and TTU and TU together limit the political fights to just one state.

quote:

ACC: Their best strategy, suck up to ESPN. They are their lifeline/lifeblood. Would be special if they could land Texas in ND-style deal. Uconn and kansas are also options for a 16th school. ESPN won't let their brother networks take each other down.



I already covered why I think the ACC dying would be in ESPN's best interest. UConn and WVU (football wise) are their best bets, but WVU isn't getting an invite.

quote:

SEC: plenty of options. Assuming all ACC schools are out. Oklahoma schools, Texas schools. I've seen kansas thrown out there (I REALLY doubt that). Not as many options as we think, especially if the ACC stays intact.



The SEC has 2 options worth getting: Virginia Tech and UNC. Nothing else will add to the conference.

quote:

B1G: Options on options. Assuming ACC is out. Could swoop on SEC (Missouri/Vandy), Iowa State, kansas (maybe both), Oklahoma, Texas, Uconn. Have said they might go to 20...so who knows?




Other than ACC teams, I can't see any good options for the B1G.


Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 11:16 am to
quote:

What is good for the conferences is bad for ESPN/Fox IMO. Conferences want more money for content, the channels want cheaper content. The conferences benefit from splitting the south east, the channels lose.


You have it backwards I believe. ESPN wants as many double SEC/ACC states as possible. That way, they can charge the in-state network rate for both the SECN and ACCN. I know these aren't the numbers..but in a state like georgia, they are getting $1 for Georgia for in-state subscription, and a $1 for GTech in-state. So if a team like GTech or Clemson joins the SEC, they lose a $1.

It might give the conferences more bargaining power with additional states, but ESPN only pays universities through TV deals.

VT and NCState are perfect for joining the SEC in ESPN moneywise with double dipping, except that might threaten the ACC...which would be disastrous. Not to mention, make a UNC/UVA B1G that much closer to possible.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 11:20 am
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
54601 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 11:59 am to
quote:

MSB wasn't having it, thread got locked.


That should tell you something right there.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

You have it backwards I believe. ESPN wants as many double SEC/ACC states as possible. That way, they can charge the in-state network rate for both the SECN and ACCN. I know these aren't the numbers..but in a state like georgia, they are getting $1 for Georgia for in-state subscription, and a $1 for GTech in-state. So if a team like GTech or Clemson joins the SEC, they lose a $1.



But ESPN has to pay more to the conferences for instate subscribers. Unless you have the numbers for instate vs out-of-state profits for ESPN, we're really just naval gazing here. Does ESPN actually charge more for instate vs out of state?

Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

Does ESPN actually charge more for instate vs out of state?


For the SEC Network it is $1.40 per subscriber in state, and $.25 out of state I believe.

B1G/Fox deal not including subscriber rates...10 years. $1B = 100mil/year. Pac just got $250/year in their re-up. FOX will give whatever it takes to keep B1G...and the B1G is way more valuable than the Pac.

I've seen figures thrown around $50mil/year per school in the B1G with the re-up.

This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 1:27 pm
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

For the SEC Network it is $1.40 per subscriber in state, and $.25 out of state I believe.



Those are the estimated for ESPN payout to the conference, which makes it good for the conference to have a high state to team ratio.

How does that benefit ESPN?
Posted by DownSouthJukin
Coaching Changes Board
Member since Jan 2014
27171 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 3:19 pm to
That's a lot of words.
Posted by rootisback
Member since Mar 2014
3371 posts
Posted on 6/26/15 at 3:21 pm to
Mizzou shite belongs on the b12 or Mizzou board. Us folks down south don't give a shite
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