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Participation Awards / Trophies - When are they okay?
Posted on 5/4/16 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 5/4/16 at 2:51 pm
This is an extension of a discussion I was having into work one day.
I pointed out that, no, I don't care much for participation trophies - but that there were some situations where there should be some kind of award.
An example, of course, is any kind of endurance test. You have 1000 people participate in a grueling, iron man-style course. 100 finish.
The 100 that finish should get something, as just finishing is the primary goal. Winning is incredible (and should have a greater reward), but something should reflect your accomplishment of completing the task.
The other scenario, which I wasn't sure about, was where the result is subjective (rather than objective). Like a cooking contest (which may be why they have some many ribbons and places in contests like these, so it may be irrelevant anyway). True, if the food is universally considered terrible it shouldn't get anything - but if two people cook incredibly good bbq, then one judge's personal tastes can cause an effect that changes the overall outcome.
Anyway, I never minded very small children getting something when "winning" is more accidental (a group of 6 year olds winning a soccer match is more likely due to a random score than any skill), but once kids reach a certain age (before 10, probably 8 or 9) they need to learn the benefit of competition and the rewards for winning to better prepare them for the future, where not everything is handed to you on a silver platter.
Yeah, I think the 4 year olds who go to practice for t-ball every day should get some kind of reward (though honestly, they'd probably just take ice cream over a trophy), but not the 9 year olds playing baseball.
Way back when I took taekwondo, our tournaments had medals for participating, but you won trophies for placing in the top 3 in an event. I never once considered getting the medal a "reward"; that might be why I always pushed myself to get at least 3rd place every time. I wasn't the best fighter, but dangit I didn't want to go home with that medal. I wanted a dang trophy.
Thoughts? Do you feel there's times when "participation" awards are not so bad?
I pointed out that, no, I don't care much for participation trophies - but that there were some situations where there should be some kind of award.
An example, of course, is any kind of endurance test. You have 1000 people participate in a grueling, iron man-style course. 100 finish.
The 100 that finish should get something, as just finishing is the primary goal. Winning is incredible (and should have a greater reward), but something should reflect your accomplishment of completing the task.
The other scenario, which I wasn't sure about, was where the result is subjective (rather than objective). Like a cooking contest (which may be why they have some many ribbons and places in contests like these, so it may be irrelevant anyway). True, if the food is universally considered terrible it shouldn't get anything - but if two people cook incredibly good bbq, then one judge's personal tastes can cause an effect that changes the overall outcome.
Anyway, I never minded very small children getting something when "winning" is more accidental (a group of 6 year olds winning a soccer match is more likely due to a random score than any skill), but once kids reach a certain age (before 10, probably 8 or 9) they need to learn the benefit of competition and the rewards for winning to better prepare them for the future, where not everything is handed to you on a silver platter.
Yeah, I think the 4 year olds who go to practice for t-ball every day should get some kind of reward (though honestly, they'd probably just take ice cream over a trophy), but not the 9 year olds playing baseball.
Way back when I took taekwondo, our tournaments had medals for participating, but you won trophies for placing in the top 3 in an event. I never once considered getting the medal a "reward"; that might be why I always pushed myself to get at least 3rd place every time. I wasn't the best fighter, but dangit I didn't want to go home with that medal. I wanted a dang trophy.
Thoughts? Do you feel there's times when "participation" awards are not so bad?
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Posted on 5/4/16 at 2:58 pm to skrayper
Below age 8, and even then, the team/player that wins should get a bigger trophy.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:02 pm to skrayper
Everyone deserves something for their effort. I'm okay with participation awards.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:06 pm to skrayper
Participation trophies at any age are a bad idea. When a child is youngest they are the most susceptible to developing a belief system. There is a lot of research out there that by age 7, a child has really established their belief in right and wrong, and that will carry with them their whole life.
If you give trophies for participation, it only cements in the kid's mind that they deserve something for showing up, and they don't have to be excellent at it to be rewarded. It's definitely ok to verbally encourage players to show up, work hard, keep practicing, etc.... but they don't deserve hardware unless they do something exceptional, like win their division or age group.
If you give trophies for participation, it only cements in the kid's mind that they deserve something for showing up, and they don't have to be excellent at it to be rewarded. It's definitely ok to verbally encourage players to show up, work hard, keep practicing, etc.... but they don't deserve hardware unless they do something exceptional, like win their division or age group.
This post was edited on 5/4/16 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:10 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
Below age 8, and even then, the team/player that wins should get a bigger trophy.
This.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:18 pm to skrayper
my kids have about 10 trophies sitting underneath me in the garage.
there are 4 in their room. the ones that they put in their room is the ones where they won their league, regardless of score keeping or "records."
i'm fine with giving everybody a trophy, but i don't want my oldest to be proud* of a trophy that he got for losing every game in a season.
* he can be proud of trying and failing, there's no shame in that. but he needs to know what it's like to have failure and that after age 10, nobody rewards failure except for working for the government.
there are 4 in their room. the ones that they put in their room is the ones where they won their league, regardless of score keeping or "records."
i'm fine with giving everybody a trophy, but i don't want my oldest to be proud* of a trophy that he got for losing every game in a season.
* he can be proud of trying and failing, there's no shame in that. but he needs to know what it's like to have failure and that after age 10, nobody rewards failure except for working for the government.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:21 pm to skrayper
I think people look into this too much. It doesn't affect kid's line of thinking later in life nearly as much as some like to pretend it does. I think it's just something for old timers to bitch about.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:23 pm to skrayper
In my experience(son is 12, daughter is 9), participation trophies are only given to kids when they're 5-7 years old. I never had a problem with it.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:25 pm to skrayper
I'm ok with giving something in recognition of participation so long as it is presented as just that and not some substitute for recognition of performance. Your example of getting something for finishing a race is perfect. Another one that comes to mind is a class ring.
Where it all gets sideways and fails the kids terribly is when performance awards are removed and only participation recognition remains. Everyone gets a class ring, but only the valedictorian gets the special sash because they were the best. Recognizing that performance teaches the kids to work for a goal and perhaps even more importantly, it teaches them how to deal with failure.
There's a great GEICO commercial that nails it perfectly. Flo's in a locker room consoling someone that just lost a sale. She says 'lets get you an ice cream', he responds 'with sprinkles?', and she replies 'sprinkles are for winners'.
You shouldn't be giving everyone ice cream without giving someone the chance to earn sprinkles.
Where it all gets sideways and fails the kids terribly is when performance awards are removed and only participation recognition remains. Everyone gets a class ring, but only the valedictorian gets the special sash because they were the best. Recognizing that performance teaches the kids to work for a goal and perhaps even more importantly, it teaches them how to deal with failure.
There's a great GEICO commercial that nails it perfectly. Flo's in a locker room consoling someone that just lost a sale. She says 'lets get you an ice cream', he responds 'with sprinkles?', and she replies 'sprinkles are for winners'.
You shouldn't be giving everyone ice cream without giving someone the chance to earn sprinkles.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:26 pm to cas4t
quote:
I think people look into this too much. It doesn't affect kid's line of thinking later in life nearly as much as some like to pretend it does. I think it's just something for old timers to bitch about.
Agreed. Saying that a child getting a participation trophy at age 10 will negatively affect his personal growth is dumb.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:27 pm to The Spleen
quote:
In my experience(son is 12, daughter is 9), participation trophies are only given to kids when they're 5-7 years old. I never had a problem with it.
I've seen them given out to kids older than that. I think it's ridiculous after 7-8, personally. The kid needs to understand that winning has benefits that losing doesn't have. No problem rewarding effort, just reward the winners a little more because they earned it.
One thing I cannot stand is youth sports that don't keep score. I mean, WHAT THE frick IS THAT?
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:30 pm to cas4t
quote:
I think it's just something for old timers to bitch about.
Most of the people I see bitching about it don't even have kids.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:33 pm to The Spleen
That's fair. It's just people who always look for something to bitch about. Old timer-minded folk. 
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:35 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
Below age 8, and even then, the team/player that wins should get a bigger trophy.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:38 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
One thing I cannot stand is youth sports that don't keep score. I mean, WHAT THE frick IS THAT?
My son's first soccer and t-ball leagues didn't keep score. Those little dumbasses didn't even know how to play either sport, so why keep score? The t-ball league didn't even count outs. Both teams just put all 9 kids to bat each half of their inning, for a 3 inning game. The goal was to have them learn the games. I thought it was dumb at first, but saw the point of it by the end of the season. First game, the kids didn't really care. By the end of the season, they were all keeping score on their own.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:45 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
I'm ok with giving something in recognition of participation so long as it is presented as just that and not some substitute for recognition of performance. Your example of getting something for finishing a race is perfect. Another one that comes to mind is a class ring.
Where it all gets sideways and fails the kids terribly is when performance awards are removed and only participation recognition remains. Everyone gets a class ring, but only the valedictorian gets the special sash because they were the best. Recognizing that performance teaches the kids to work for a goal and perhaps even more importantly, it teaches them how to deal with failure.
There's a great GEICO commercial that nails it perfectly. Flo's in a locker room consoling someone that just lost a sale. She says 'lets get you an ice cream', he responds 'with sprinkles?', and she replies 'sprinkles are for winners'.
You shouldn't be giving everyone ice cream without giving someone the chance to earn sprinkles.
Not to be a dick but this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Participation trophies/ribbons aren't given out past age like 11-12. It's not going to resonate with a kid that young. It's just not worth bitching about IMO.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:45 pm to The Spleen
quote:
My son's first soccer and t-ball leagues didn't keep score. Those little dumbasses didn't even know how to play either sport, so why keep score? The t-ball league didn't even count outs. Both teams just put all 9 kids to bat each half of their inning, for a 3 inning game. The goal was to have them learn the games. I thought it was dumb at first, but saw the point of it by the end of the season. First game, the kids didn't really care. By the end of the season, they were all keeping score on their own.
That sounds like the 1st & 2nd grade Upward Basketball leagues. They don't keep score and when the season starts they barely know which end of the court is their goal. By then end of the year, they're keeping informal league standings......
This post was edited on 5/4/16 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:47 pm to Stacked
quote:
Everyone deserves something for their effort. I'm okay with participation awards.
Everyone deserves something. That's why the lesser teams used to get participation ribbons. Top three teams or people get a trophy. Everyone else should get a ribbon.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:50 pm to cas4t
quote:
I think people look into this too much. It doesn't affect kid's line of thinking later in life nearly as much as some like to pretend it does. I think it's just something for old timers to bitch about.
Prettymuch this. Kids aren't stupid. Even in 6 year old soccer I didn't care about the tiny little plastic trophy they gave everyone, but could recognize the big shiny one that the winning team got on awards day actually stood for something. This entire anti-participation trophy thing seems to just be faux-outrage by people who listen to way too much Walton and Johnson.
Posted on 5/4/16 at 3:53 pm to cas4t
quote:
It's not going to resonate with a kid that young.
Clearly you don't have kids and I'll bet you've never coached them.
As I said earlier, within their first few games of competitive sports, they're fully aware of the difference between winning and losing. It isn't the end of the world and I'm not going SJW over the issue, but it most certainly does resonate with them.
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