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re: Noah's Ark - Kentucky
Posted on 7/5/16 at 2:33 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
Posted on 7/5/16 at 2:33 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.” - Thomas Jefferson, 1808.
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Posted on 7/5/16 at 3:02 pm to BluegrassBelle
Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
[i]"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."[/i]
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
[i]"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."[/i]
Posted on 7/5/16 at 3:33 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
Thomas Jefferson
Explains why he cut up multiple bibles to create the Jefferson Bible. He didn't believe half of what you do.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 3:36 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
I don't recall debating whether or not Thomas Jefferson was Christian. But just because he was Christian, doesn't mean he believed our government should dictate our religious beliefs.
By the way, how do you feel about Ken Hall charging $40 admission for his Ark? So a family of four would need to pay $160 just to get in the door of a Christian-based Bible attraction.
By the way, how do you feel about Ken Hall charging $40 admission for his Ark? So a family of four would need to pay $160 just to get in the door of a Christian-based Bible attraction.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 3:39 pm to dmjones
quote:
He didn't believe half of what you do.
Yep. He admired Christ's teachings, but didn't actually believe he was the Son of God.
quote:
1823 April 11. (Jefferson to John Adams). "The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.
LINK
This post was edited on 7/5/16 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 7/5/16 at 3:43 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
By the way, how do you feel about Ken Hall charging $40 admission for his Ark? So a family of four would need to pay $160 just to get in the door of a Christian-based Bible attraction.
No different than churches almost strong-arming members into tithing a large chunk of their income, young or old, to the church.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 3:46 pm to Miz Piggy
quote:
Yep. He admired Christ's teachings, but didn't actually believe he was the Son of God.
Someone who knows something!
I visited Monticello, several times, as a child. My wife grew up half an hour from there. We've always been big fans and learned early on that he was not what many modern day Republicans like to think.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:25 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Looks pretty impressive. Anyone going?
My family will definitely be going. I started planning a road trip when this was announced. Will visit this and the Creation Museum.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:26 pm to BluegrassBelle
...and I'm not saying the govt should dictate people's religious beliefs. I'm saying that this country was founded on Christian principles by Christian people. I agree people have the right to believe what they want, but they don't have the right to force laws through making everyone to accept their actions and beliefs as right - the govt shouldn't force people to believe a certain religion (that is a separate issue). By the way, this in itself is a Christian principle.
...and I have no problem paying $160 for my family to be able to go to the ark exhibit. Ken's bills don't stop coming in the mail just because it's a Christian attraction either. For Pete's sake, a nosebleed ticket at Death Valley is that much apiece!
...and I have no problem paying $160 for my family to be able to go to the ark exhibit. Ken's bills don't stop coming in the mail just because it's a Christian attraction either. For Pete's sake, a nosebleed ticket at Death Valley is that much apiece!
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:27 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
By the way, how do you feel about Ken Hall charging $40 admission for his Ark? So a family of four would need to pay $160 just to get in the door of a Christian-based Bible attraction.
What's the problem here? It's not like it was free to build the thing. $40 isn't expensive.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:27 pm to dmjones
Anyone who says Christianity was not the foundation of our country and our government system has done no historical reading or research of their own. Here is just one statement, recorded by our US Congress to clearly affirm this (there are many many more):
Congress, U. S. House Judiciary Committee, 1854
Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle... In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity... That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.
--Reports of Committees of the House of Representatives Made During the First Session of the Thirty-Third Congress (Washington: A. O. P. Nicholson, 1854), pp. 6-9.
Congress, U. S. House Judiciary Committee, 1854
Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle... In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity... That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.
--Reports of Committees of the House of Representatives Made During the First Session of the Thirty-Third Congress (Washington: A. O. P. Nicholson, 1854), pp. 6-9.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:29 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
What's the problem here? It's not like it was free to build the thing. $40 isn't expensive.
Ikr bringing a family of 4 to a movie is close to that if you buy food and drinks.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:33 pm to dmjones
quote:
churches almost strong-arming members into tithing a large chunk of their income, young or old, to the church.
Tithing is Biblical and should be done according to what the Bible says. "Strong-arming" members into tithing is not Biblical, and you should consider changing churches my friend. My church don't "strong-arm" anyone into doing anything. We'd be thrilled to see ya visit us Sunday.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:40 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
Tithing is Biblical and should be done according to what the Bible says. "Strong-arming" members into tithing is not Biblical, and you should consider changing churches my friend. My church don't "strong-arm" anyone into doing anything. We'd be thrilled to see ya visit us Sunday.
A big problem with the perception of Christianity, is that there are quite a lot of "preachers/church leaders" who do not believe in/teach actual Christian principals. Lots of self-serving preachers out there.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:43 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
The only group left in America that is socially acceptable to detest, mock, scorn, laugh at, and ridicule is the very people who's ideals and convictions founded this great REPUBLIC.
The ridicule comes from your entitlement thinking that you can dictate to the government and citizens alike what you will and won't do. Your religious freedom stops where it infringes upon someone else's freedom.
It comes from your insistence that this is a Christian nation, that Christians have special rights and that your Christian values are the mores of our nation. Christians are no more special than any group and must practice their religion within the bounds that the Constitution provides for everyone. You are not special.
If you haven't noticed, change is sweeping America. Religion's influence in government is fading. Previously oppressed groups are enjoying freedoms once denied to them because of Christian influence in government.
Your time has passed. Welcome to the America the Founders intended, one where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is our first more.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:48 pm to PurpleandGeauld
quote:
Anyone who says Christianity was not the foundation of our country and our government system has done no historical reading or research of their own.
That Christianity was the dominant religion at the time of America's founding means nothing. In fact, the Founders designed the Constitution to prevent any religion from mixing with government, especially Christianity since that was the King's religion the early settlers were running from.
This post was edited on 7/5/16 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:52 pm to Kentucker
quote:
the Founders designed the Constitution to prevent any religion from mixing with government, especially Christianity since that was the King's religion the early settlers were running from.
Amazing that people don't understand this.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 4:58 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Amazing that people don't understand this.
Thankfully, most Americans do. There's a noisy minority made up mostly of evangelicals whose influence is fading fast here early in the 21st century.
We are a diverse society because we were designed to be welcoming and nurturing to all groups. Our Constitution excludes no one and favors no one.
It is currently being applied as the founders designed it. To me, it's the most precious document ever written.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 5:02 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
...and I'm not saying the govt should dictate people's religious beliefs. I'm saying that this country was founded on Christian principles by Christian people.
Thomas Jefferson didn't believe that Jesus was the son of God, and the denial of marriage rights, or teaching creationism over science, isn't a founding principle of this country. Some of the worst and poorest areas in this country are the ones with the strongest Southern Baptist affiliation. The government has no responsibility to treat any religion as one that should be protected or promoted above any other. That's the job of the Church, and the Church makes no laws.
quote:
I agree people have the right to believe what they want, but they don't have the right to force laws through making everyone to accept their actions and beliefs as right - the govt shouldn't force people to believe a certain religion (that is a separate issue).
What? How does gay marriage being legal make anyone "believe something is right"? O. Right. That same argument was used when segregationists wanted to keep blacks and whites from marrying, and it made as little sense now as it did then. Things are allowed to be legal that your religion is allowed to think is wrong. Just because something is legal, that doesn't force anyone to do it.
Posted on 7/5/16 at 5:03 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Your religious freedom stops where it infringes upon someone else's freedom.
quote:
Religion's influence in government is fading.
quote:
Welcome to the America the Founders intended, one where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is our first more.
Sadly, I believe you are in for a rude awakening. Christianity is being attacked and Islam is being embraced. By our government. Here is a quote from Islam's Bible, and what our "free" country has to look forward to if we don't deal with it immediately:
quote:
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great (Surah 4:34, emp. added; cf. 4:11; 2:223,228,282; 38:45; 16:58-59; see also Brooks, 1995; Trifkovic, 2002, pp. 153-167).
This post was edited on 7/5/16 at 5:04 pm
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