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Insurance Law - Anyone particularly knowledgeable here?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:03 pm
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:03 pm
This place seems to have a lot of people with a wide range of backgrounds so figured I'd put this out there and see if anyone has any advice or thoughts. Thanks in advance.
TL;DR: Mom getting royally effed by an insurance company. Intentional delays on their end and refusal to cover a rental car for 8 months now. Looking for advice/recommendations on any avenues that she can pursue to move things forward... didn't expect to end up with this giant wall of text below.
Eight months ago, my mom was in a pretty bad car accident. Fortunately, she walked away with no major injuries, but her car on the other hand was rendered completely undriveable. Odd situation where a guy pulled a swoop/squat (not malicious, just a bad driver), she managed to stop without hitting him but the guy behind her didn't even brake and plowed her into him. She was not found at fault in any way, so one would think that she would have gotten a shitty check for what little value her vehicle had (it was a beater at this point... she drives them til the wheels fall off
God love her) and that would have been the end of it, right?
Of course not... otherwise it wouldn't be worth posting. (Some may argue that it still isn't.) She refused to let me help in any way (very proud woman), not financially, not with making calls on her behalf and dealing with the insurance companies and they continued to give her the run around. Guy who hit her (found at fault) was apparently driving a friend's car, so then there was some argument that maybe he didn't have permission, blah blah blah, but the friend has come out and said he did so that's been debunked. So for 8 months, she's been without a vehicle of her own. They refused to get her a rental vehicle during this time. She was at least able to borrow a friend's beater car in order to get to and from work, though it was old and not reliable and many times was forced to grab a cab or call people for rides (lives somewhat remote, and a solid 20+ miles from her work).
At this point, she has been essentially forced into hiring an attorney (who doesn't seem to be very good, or motivated for that matter) just to try and get some kind of compensation. A demand letter went out to both the guy at fault's insurance company as well as the insurance company of the guy who actually caused the whole accident and when the at fault insurance company replied back, as you can guess, the offer was a complete joke... something like $2k but that they weren't going to cover the cost of 8 months storage + towing of her vehicle (now totaling $2500 or so). Interestingly, the *not* at fault insurance company did reply, not with any kind of offer, but to indicate that their driver's claim for damages had already been taken care of by the at fault insurance company. This seems to be bordering on negligence/delaying with "malicious intent", doesn't it? Take care of the guy with the shiny new car and shite on the little guy (gal) with the beater and hope she goes away. I've been looking up insurance law in Georgia, but the only thing that I came across was "Bad Faith" claims, which seemingly only apply to the insured and their insurer, not a claimant against them?
Sounds like the attorney working on contingency, so will want ~1/3 of anything paid out, and just doing some rough math, between time missed from work, medical costs, salvage value of her car, and replacement costs for a car for the duration of this time (8 months @ $30/day) the number should be about $10k. This of course discounts the inconvenience, missed life experiences she can't get back (like the birth of our daughter), and countless other things that most of us wouldn't give 2 seconds thought to until you're like "frick, I don't have a car". After taking out the 1/3, that would at least give her a fair amount to either go find a used car she could buy outright or a solid downpayment on a newer used car that would likely last her for another 10-15 years.
Anyone have any thoughts on avenues to pursue that would help move this shite along to a reasonable outcome? She's getting to the point now where she just wants it to be over and I have a feeling she'll take a shitty offer just to make it go away, which appears to have been their strategy all along. Just don't like seeing people taken advantage of, let alone my mother who is objectively and unquestionably one of the nicest people on the planet (which of course only enables this kind of bullshite).
#bouttokillamfininsurancecompany
TL;DR: Mom getting royally effed by an insurance company. Intentional delays on their end and refusal to cover a rental car for 8 months now. Looking for advice/recommendations on any avenues that she can pursue to move things forward... didn't expect to end up with this giant wall of text below.
Eight months ago, my mom was in a pretty bad car accident. Fortunately, she walked away with no major injuries, but her car on the other hand was rendered completely undriveable. Odd situation where a guy pulled a swoop/squat (not malicious, just a bad driver), she managed to stop without hitting him but the guy behind her didn't even brake and plowed her into him. She was not found at fault in any way, so one would think that she would have gotten a shitty check for what little value her vehicle had (it was a beater at this point... she drives them til the wheels fall off
God love her) and that would have been the end of it, right? Of course not... otherwise it wouldn't be worth posting. (Some may argue that it still isn't.) She refused to let me help in any way (very proud woman), not financially, not with making calls on her behalf and dealing with the insurance companies and they continued to give her the run around. Guy who hit her (found at fault) was apparently driving a friend's car, so then there was some argument that maybe he didn't have permission, blah blah blah, but the friend has come out and said he did so that's been debunked. So for 8 months, she's been without a vehicle of her own. They refused to get her a rental vehicle during this time. She was at least able to borrow a friend's beater car in order to get to and from work, though it was old and not reliable and many times was forced to grab a cab or call people for rides (lives somewhat remote, and a solid 20+ miles from her work).
At this point, she has been essentially forced into hiring an attorney (who doesn't seem to be very good, or motivated for that matter) just to try and get some kind of compensation. A demand letter went out to both the guy at fault's insurance company as well as the insurance company of the guy who actually caused the whole accident and when the at fault insurance company replied back, as you can guess, the offer was a complete joke... something like $2k but that they weren't going to cover the cost of 8 months storage + towing of her vehicle (now totaling $2500 or so). Interestingly, the *not* at fault insurance company did reply, not with any kind of offer, but to indicate that their driver's claim for damages had already been taken care of by the at fault insurance company. This seems to be bordering on negligence/delaying with "malicious intent", doesn't it? Take care of the guy with the shiny new car and shite on the little guy (gal) with the beater and hope she goes away. I've been looking up insurance law in Georgia, but the only thing that I came across was "Bad Faith" claims, which seemingly only apply to the insured and their insurer, not a claimant against them?
Sounds like the attorney working on contingency, so will want ~1/3 of anything paid out, and just doing some rough math, between time missed from work, medical costs, salvage value of her car, and replacement costs for a car for the duration of this time (8 months @ $30/day) the number should be about $10k. This of course discounts the inconvenience, missed life experiences she can't get back (like the birth of our daughter), and countless other things that most of us wouldn't give 2 seconds thought to until you're like "frick, I don't have a car". After taking out the 1/3, that would at least give her a fair amount to either go find a used car she could buy outright or a solid downpayment on a newer used car that would likely last her for another 10-15 years.
Anyone have any thoughts on avenues to pursue that would help move this shite along to a reasonable outcome? She's getting to the point now where she just wants it to be over and I have a feeling she'll take a shitty offer just to make it go away, which appears to have been their strategy all along. Just don't like seeing people taken advantage of, let alone my mother who is objectively and unquestionably one of the nicest people on the planet (which of course only enables this kind of bullshite).
#bouttokillamfininsurancecompany
This post was edited on 3/9/16 at 9:13 pm
8
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:11 pm to fibonaccisquared
Sounds like she shouldn't have gone with the General.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:14 pm to Nevin Shapiro
quote:
Sounds like she shouldn't have gone with the General.
Would be clever were it her insurance company that's causing the problem. She's been working with Jake from State Farm for going on 40 years now.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:30 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Anyone have any thoughts on avenues to pursue that would help move this shite along to a reasonable outcome? She's getting to the point now where she just wants it to be over and I have a feeling she'll take a shitty offer just to make it go away, which appears to have been their strategy all along. Just don't like seeing people taken advantage of, let alone my mother who is objectively and unquestionably one of the nicest people on the planet (which of course only enables this kind of bullshite).
Ok. I do not work in Property/Casual Insurance, but I've been in the insurance/financial industry for over a decade.
What you need to do is file a formal complaint with the Insurance Commissioner in the state, and have her attorney send a copy of the complaint to the insurance company. (Since she hired an attorney, the attorney should be the only once communicating with the Insurance company from now on.) Most times you don't even have to file a formal complaint, you just have to tell them you're going to.
Now, usually, the insurance company will become very agreeable once a formal complaint has been filed. They do not want them breathing down their necks, I promise. They aren't worried about attorneys, but the insurance commissioner has the power to shut them down in that state.
If they don't start becoming more agreeable, you may have to wait on the state to investigate your claim, which can take awhile.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:32 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
who doesn't seem to be very good, or motivated for that matter
why the frick is she paying for a shitty lawyer? you want money honey you do your fricking job and do it well, tell your mom to stop being a doormat.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 8:08 am to fibonaccisquared
Quick questions, when you say "at fault", who determined this? the police or the insurance companies?
Car was totaled, correct?
Who did she file the claim with first?
Who wont give her a rental car? hers or theirs?
Why was the vehicle in storage for 8 months?
Car was totaled, correct?
Who did she file the claim with first?
Who wont give her a rental car? hers or theirs?
Why was the vehicle in storage for 8 months?
Posted on 3/10/16 at 8:13 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
She's been working with Jake from State Farm for going on 40 years now.
She needs to call Jake and get him on the case and she needs to hire a new lawyer. At this point, the time to negotiate has passed. It's time to file the suit.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 8:28 am to fibonaccisquared
I used to handle vehicle claims exactly like this. It sounds like your scenario is missing some details though. So they totaled her car and gave her an ACV offer to settle those damages. Did she accept that offer? Has she signed over the title to the insurance company? Generally, these things move pretty quick once the vehicle is deemed a total loss, unless the owner of the vehicle disputes the offer, or refuses to sign the offer.
Insurance follows the vehicle, so the driver's insurance would not apply unless there were serious injuries and stacking coverages was needed to cover medical bills(though I can't remember if Georgia allows stacking of coverages.)
The at fault insurance is also responsible for providing her reasonable alternate transportation, usually a rental. 8 months is not reasonable, and from what you've posted it appears your mom is the one that may be dragging her feet. Usually on a totaled vehicle, reasonable is from the day the accident occurred until the vehicle is repaired, or if it is totaled, 3-4 days after the offer is made from the insurance company to allow time to find a replacement vehicle.
Insurance follows the vehicle, so the driver's insurance would not apply unless there were serious injuries and stacking coverages was needed to cover medical bills(though I can't remember if Georgia allows stacking of coverages.)
The at fault insurance is also responsible for providing her reasonable alternate transportation, usually a rental. 8 months is not reasonable, and from what you've posted it appears your mom is the one that may be dragging her feet. Usually on a totaled vehicle, reasonable is from the day the accident occurred until the vehicle is repaired, or if it is totaled, 3-4 days after the offer is made from the insurance company to allow time to find a replacement vehicle.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 8:32 am to The Spleen
quote:
if it is totaled, 3-4 days after the offer is made from the insurance company to allow time to find a replacement vehicle.
Usually around here(GA) once check is in hand or account(if dd), rental is due the next business day
quote:
Generally, these things move pretty quick once the vehicle is deemed a total loss
This^^ Inspector comes out and visits vehicle, determines extent of loss, if totaled, you might have another person come out and eval car for value, then offer is made. Title, salvage and pickup happen. This usually takes between 2-6 weeks
This post was edited on 3/10/16 at 8:36 am
Posted on 3/10/16 at 8:40 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Usually around here(GA) once check is in hand or account(if dd), rental is due the next business day
Yeah, I should have said every insurance company handles it a little different. I don't recall if there was any case law that defined "reasonable" in these circumstances. The company I worked for gave you a couple of days before rental was cut off, unless it was one of our policy holders that had rental coverage on their policy. They could stay in the rental up to the 30 day policy max if they wanted.
Posted on 3/10/16 at 2:19 pm to fibonaccisquared
definitely sounds like some sort of unfair claims practices going on. no need for it to take 8 months, esp considering there was not a huge BI claim at hand.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 10:43 am to fibonaccisquared
I'm in the insurance industry.
Does she have full coverage w/ rental reimbursement on her policy? If so, you can turn the claim in through her insurance company and they will subrogate.
Though I doubt she has that coverage since you say it's a "beater", I'm assuming she just has basic liability. With that being said, the "at-fault" party's insurance company is responsible for that tab. (the owner of the vehicle)
It sounds like there may be more to the story though.
Does she have full coverage w/ rental reimbursement on her policy? If so, you can turn the claim in through her insurance company and they will subrogate.
Though I doubt she has that coverage since you say it's a "beater", I'm assuming she just has basic liability. With that being said, the "at-fault" party's insurance company is responsible for that tab. (the owner of the vehicle)
It sounds like there may be more to the story though.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 10:48 am
Posted on 3/11/16 at 10:58 am to fibonaccisquared
Call the Insurance Commish. I have a large client who had a similar case with one of their drivers and we had to push...a lot.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 11:04 am to cas4t
I wasn't trolling. I posted a funny picture of a doggy humping a Tiger. Didn't think about the kid or the injury and didn't think it would cause such a meltdown by LSU fans.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 12:40 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
Quick questions, when you say "at fault", who determined this? the police or the insurance companies?
Police determined fault. Insurance companies then tried to play "not my problem" due to the odd situation with the driver.
Car was *maybe* fixable, but definitely would have cost more to repair than it was worth.
She filed the claim with the insurance policy for the "at fault" vehicle (the driver was not the policy holder).
Their insurance policy refused rental coverage and she carries the most basic of policies on her own car, so no rental coverage given that they were not at fault (according to her).
Vehicle was towed from accident. I'm assuming the vehicle remained in storage as a result of the insurance company failing to accept liability, thus not "totaling the vehicle out", *but* I will say I don't know this for certain (will ask).
Posted on 3/16/16 at 12:57 pm to The Spleen
quote:
So they totaled her car and gave her an ACV offer to settle those damages
They did *not* total the car out until the 8 month mark. It took them that long to "accept responsibility". They didn't even do that until she'd hired an attorney who put in a demand letter to both insurance companies.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 12:59 pm to The Spleen
quote:
The at fault insurance is also responsible for providing her reasonable alternate transportation, usually a rental. 8 months is not reasonable,
Agreed. 8 months would be entirely unreasonable to request a rental vehicle. The 8 months though was a delay on their part in refusing to accept liability until a demand letter was received.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 2:02 pm to cas4t
quote:
Call the Insurance Commish
This was my thought as well after researching. Appreciate the confirmation that it might at least be a viable next step.
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