re: Europa announcement (NON-TROLL THREAD)

Except there's ample evidence for an alternative history of man.

This evidence is suppressed, of course.

Do you believe there's ancient history of man involving highly advanced civilization that aren't acknowledged by mainstream outlets?

There is. Lots and lots of it, actually.

I'll make a thread about it instead of hijacking this one.

See ya there.

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There is. Lots and lots of it, actually.

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Not with peer reviews, I think. Otherwise it would be in the mainstream of science.

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If you've ever seen the original Planet of the Apes, that's pretty much what's going on here.

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Well, there were two species warring in the original. I can't imagine that you think there are still two species of humans on earth today.

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The truth, whatever that may be, is kept from us to maintain the order that we live under.

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Order? I wouldn't call the status of mankind here in early 21st century orderly. Chaos abounds.

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I'll show you the way.

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Seriously, ST, you're probably a nice guy when you're in the company of others who share your opinions and you seem to want to share your world view with people; a world view that you're convinced reflects reality. I just think you might be defining reality a bit too rigidly.

Reality is ever changing. I know you've heard that change is the only constant.

Plus les choses changent plus elles restent les mêmes devis. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This is the boring fact of life.

This reflects our current state of evolution. We have about 20 senses that feed input into a magnificent brain that is continually assessing where it is in spacetime, relative to its knowledge of the environment in which it resides.

It does this automatically. In fact, every living creature on earth does this, brain or no brain. It's biological logic.

With humans, however, there's a catch. Our brains have evolved to the point that we can overrule this logic. Not willingly in most cases. Einstein and Hawking did, of course, but they are the exceptions rather than the rule.

It's the price we pay for losing what we call instincts in other creatures. Our world views are extremely important because we use them to relate to other people.

There is no standard view, of course, but there is one which most people share with minor individual revisions. It's called the mainstream.

The further we are from this mainstream, the less able we are to relate to it. The more we push against it, the more alien we become to it.

Most people like being in the mainstream. Most people want to be within it. Some don't and can easily and happily reside outside it. They have been some of the greatest contributors to humanity, too.

I think you're outside the mainstream and want to convince others of an alternative reality. You want your ideas to be accepted by the mainstream.

Thy name is legion. Many are the people who would have their views recognized as the "real" ones.

That's why a mainstream is dominant. And there are rules for getting into the mainstream. First and foremost one must convince enough of the "others" in society that your ideas are sound and logical.

That's why the scientific method is so important in science. It weeds out those ideas that are based upon feelings, desires, hopes and personal logic. Evidence and peer review are the strict determinants of an idea, or theory, for consideration as a scientific principle.

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Well, there were two species warring in the original. I can't imagine that you think there are still two species of humans on earth today.

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Analogy wasn't referring to two species.

Throughout the movie the ape leaders teach the civilian apes religion and science based on something they know is untrue in order to better control them.

The ape leader is aware of a long ago civilization, which is why he desperately tried to subvert the lady-scientist-ape when she was analyzing Charlton Heston.

At the end of the movie they find a cave with artifacts from another time that show a superior civilization existed -- they bring the ape leader to show him, but he demands it be covered up.

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Order? I wouldn't call the status of mankind here in early 21st century orderly. Chaos abounds.

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Order wasn't being used to define the condition of things. It's not order vs chaos.

The term order in that context is referring to the power structure, or a social class.

Folks, take notes - this is how a good thread is supposed to progress.

I'll explain why it's not: This is about Europa. This isn't about a theory that has literally no evidence. Humans had a very erratic, difficult evolutionary process and it's hard to think that there was any human involvement with ET of any kind. I could believe that there may be some lifeforms living on Earth that could very well evolved from, say, Panspermia (which might be on topic) but no.

We have to hear about ancient civilizations that were really advanced but left no visible trace even though we have evidence of life dating back 3.7 Billion years ago. It's just not a theory worth entertaining unless something new comes along. So let's get back on topic.




How in the frick are we gonna explore that moon? How many years off are we?

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Odd to assume ET would automatically be involved with advanced ancient civilizations. There was no mention of it here.

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There can be no other explanation if you're asserting that humans existed pre-evolution. If you're saying that, possibly, humans were a little more advanced 40 - 50,000 years back, maybe, but anything before that is just stupidity.

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I'm not going to prove to you advanced civilizations existed here and now.

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Don't prove it to me. Take it the universities, you'll be a millionaire. They'll say WHOA, ST, YOU CRACKED IT.

It's what I say to evolution denialists, you want to prove it? Get off your arse, get into university and debate it there.

Otherwise, please save us a shitpost laden thread.

fellas, we had a good civil debate going. No need to derail this thread with personal attacks.

Tuck

Let's send it to the studio and break down what just happened.

Me: Planet of the Apes reference and use of the word 'order'.

You: Misinterpretation of the reference and miscomprehension of the word order.

For some reason you and your buddy downvoted my corrections to your mistakes, which is strange since there wasn't any personal attack and of course it's clear and obvious that it was you that made an error.

Nothing wrong with the misinterpretation of the reference, as it wasn't explained in detail, it was left open in hope you knew what I was getting at -- no big deal though.

And nothing against you for your miscomprehension of the word 'order' in that context. It happens.

You of course didn't reply to my corrections, which is cool, nothing to really reply to.

Instead you focused on telling me I need to prove what I'm saying. Understandable. But I'm under no obligation to spend Friday night summarizing thousands of pages of work in a neatly organized post for your benefit. I had already said I'm not turning this into an ancient civilization thread.

It's odd that you'd spend as much energy as you did telling me I'm lacking consciousness and I'm delusional and something about Theory of Mind.. That's a pretty weird way to respond.