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re: BLM and the Chicago Kidnapping/Torture Case
Posted on 1/7/17 at 12:09 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Posted on 1/7/17 at 12:09 pm to TbirdSpur2010
They acted alot of the same way the Colonies did in the Revolutionary War. The deep South felt there way of life being threatened and States Rights being threatened, now Virginia, Tennessee, Arkansas, North Carolina and parts of Missouri and Kentucky left the Union when Lincoln called up troops to invade the South, so if you agree with them or not from their point of view they were fighting against people that was invading their homeland. People forgot the North also had slave states and alot of people of the north hated and look down on black people also, look at the draft riots in New York City in July 1863 they where lynching black people in the streets. William T Sherman the Union General was extremely racist and didn't even view black people as being human. Lincoln was a anti-slavery Republican but the main reason for the Emancipation Proclamation was to make sure European Nations (where slavery had been outlawed) would not enter the war to aid the South, which was a smart move on his part. Each state had a regiment that fought for the opposite side except for South Carolina, so I don't look at it fair to just condemn one side or the other both sides had there share of good and bad people. Slavery was a horrible institutions but I believe it was going to die out anyway with the industrialization of the United States in the following years so I look at that war as a tragedy. I don't think it is good to forget any part of our history good or bad because it has made us what we are today and "those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
This post was edited on 1/7/17 at 12:24 pm
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Posted on 1/7/17 at 12:30 pm to WeagleinFLA
The South preemptively left the Union and they preemptively fired upon Fort Sumter. Don't give me this "invasion" bullshite.
Also, I'm not holding up Lincoln as some great emancipator--the EP was a political move first and foremost. But, yes, the South feared that their way of life, which was dependent on the utter subjugation of slaves, was threatened when Lincoln took office. They professed this POV themselves.
But without hijacking this into a civil war thread, the point is that we can remember parts of our sordid history (and every nation has that kind of history btw) without glorifying it. We don't need soaring monuments to those who would rend the union asunder and have shot down the great eagle that is the modern day USA before it even had the chance to spread its wings. We CAN acknowledge them in history books. We CAN observe their exploits and trinkets displayed in museums. We CAN come to terms with the fact that their cause was one in direct conflict with the constitutional terms upon which the nation was founded, and we CAN be mindful of the fact that just because one lives in the South, one doesn't have to genuflect at the mere mention of the names of these individuals.
BLM is silly, as are confederate apologists.
Also, I'm not holding up Lincoln as some great emancipator--the EP was a political move first and foremost. But, yes, the South feared that their way of life, which was dependent on the utter subjugation of slaves, was threatened when Lincoln took office. They professed this POV themselves.
But without hijacking this into a civil war thread, the point is that we can remember parts of our sordid history (and every nation has that kind of history btw) without glorifying it. We don't need soaring monuments to those who would rend the union asunder and have shot down the great eagle that is the modern day USA before it even had the chance to spread its wings. We CAN acknowledge them in history books. We CAN observe their exploits and trinkets displayed in museums. We CAN come to terms with the fact that their cause was one in direct conflict with the constitutional terms upon which the nation was founded, and we CAN be mindful of the fact that just because one lives in the South, one doesn't have to genuflect at the mere mention of the names of these individuals.
BLM is silly, as are confederate apologists.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 12:43 pm to WeagleinFLA
The Civil War is more complex then other wars where there was a clear good vs bad side.
The South had people like Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who actually started a school for black kids when that was frowned at in that day and time. Alot of people doesn't know but he actually told a fellow officer before the war that he " thought that God was unhappy with the South and would bring about war to correct certain shortcomings" his view on the war was to do his duty to his home State of Virginia and God would take care of the rest.
I love Civil War History I could go on about individuals I admire on both sides and some I do not on both sides but to look at that war or any war of the past you have to try to imagine being in that time.
The South had people like Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who actually started a school for black kids when that was frowned at in that day and time. Alot of people doesn't know but he actually told a fellow officer before the war that he " thought that God was unhappy with the South and would bring about war to correct certain shortcomings" his view on the war was to do his duty to his home State of Virginia and God would take care of the rest.
I love Civil War History I could go on about individuals I admire on both sides and some I do not on both sides but to look at that war or any war of the past you have to try to imagine being in that time.
This post was edited on 1/7/17 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:00 pm to TrumpBama2017
quote:
The Civil War is more complex then other wars where there was a clear good vs bad side.
I also agree with this, for the record.
When I look at the Civil War, the thing I'm most thankful for is the victor, tbh. We'd be two very different countries today otherwise.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:01 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
TbirdSpur
To be polite, you have no idea what you are talking about. The Federal Government gets its power from The States - not the other way around.
There is nothing in our Constitution that says States cannot withdrawal their participation, in fact the 10th Amendment empowers the States to do just that.
Lincoln amassed a 75K man army to occupy the South, that's what spurred The South to secede. South Carolina was another country.
And if you Sir are all caught up in treason, than I hope you will be first to tie the hangmans neuse for every American soldier that has illegally fought in every war since WWII.
This post was edited on 1/7/17 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:05 pm to NYCAuburn
Unbelievable, really no hope for change, very sad
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:09 pm to TbirdSpur2010
You need to go back and look when the States seceded, you could make that point for the original 7 deep southern states but the other 4 states and 2 secessionist governments left because Lincoln called on those states to raise up regiments to help with the invasion and specifically the Governor of Virginia told Washington since Lincoln chosen to inaugurate civil war they would meet them on the field with that same determination. I don't love the Confederacy I just try look at it what would I think if I was alive during that period how would I feel. You have your own view on things and I have mine.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:12 pm to TrumpBama2017
quote:
The Civil War is more complex then other wars where there was a clear good vs bad side.
Not really.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:20 pm to TrumpBama2017
quote:
The South had people like Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who actually started a school for black kids when that was frowned at in that day and time. Alot of people doesn't know but he actually told a fellow officer before the war that he " thought that God was unhappy with the South and would bring about war to correct certain shortcomings" his view on the war was to do his duty to his home State of Virginia and God would take care of the rest.
So he thought the South had so many shortcomings, that God was needed to fix them? Seems like the good vs bad thing is pretty clear.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:23 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Most of my ancestors fought and died for the Confederacy so I disagree with the not having any Confederate Memorials or monuments.
I do agree however with it being better the Union won cause if the South had somehow got a peace treaty to gain their independence it could have caused more divison and we may have ended up having more then two nations.
I do agree however with it being better the Union won cause if the South had somehow got a peace treaty to gain their independence it could have caused more divison and we may have ended up having more then two nations.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:31 pm to TeLeFaWx
I think it's pretty clear both sides had their share of good and bad. The South had the scourge of slavery but when Lee marched into Maryland in 1862 and Pennsylvania in 1863 I don't think his troops where robbing people and raping women.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 1:36 pm to TrumpBama2017
You really should visit Germany
Posted on 1/7/17 at 2:08 pm to Rebelgator
Can someone please explain to me why there is a vast opinion that Northerners did not own slaves? Hells Bells, the Slaves in The North were not freed until the ratification of The 13th Amendment. Slaves built The Capital building during the war!
The largest slave owners in North America lived in Boston. Their slaves were in the Caribbean mostly - do you think that may have something to do with their abolitionist attiduted towards The South? Do you think that had anything further to do with the insane tariffs Northern States put on Southern?
The Civil War is the biggest lie our Society ever told.
The largest slave owners in North America lived in Boston. Their slaves were in the Caribbean mostly - do you think that may have something to do with their abolitionist attiduted towards The South? Do you think that had anything further to do with the insane tariffs Northern States put on Southern?
The Civil War is the biggest lie our Society ever told.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 2:18 pm to TrumpBama2017
I wouldn't be offended by a Confederate Memorial or a Confederate Flag, people these days need to quit being so sensitive about stuff just because I may not agree with everything somebody else does it doesn't give me the right to tell them they have to do away with something of their tradition just because I personally may not like or agree with it. I respect everyone's opinion but this country would be way better off if everyone grew some thick skin and wasn't so sensitive about everything.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 2:18 pm to TrumpBama2017
quote:
Most of my ancestors fought and died for the Confederacy so I disagree with the not having any Confederate Memorials or monuments.
Most of my ancestors were the ones the Southern economy was exploiting.
I'm not pretending the Civil War was a clear cut good vs. evil conflict. Where I come down on it, though, is that having all these venerable monuments to a treasonous cause sends a bad message. We can learn about history (so we don't repeat it) without glorifying it and pretending the vanquished had just cause. They did not, and got their asses whooped, thankfully.
This post was edited on 1/7/17 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 1/7/17 at 2:26 pm to TrumpBama2017
The North also had 4 slave holding states Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware, also there were free black men who owned black slaves but you won't read about that in your high school history book. I'm neutral I am not trying to defend the Confederacy, slavery or secession. The North was just as racist as the South in my opinion.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 2:29 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Most of my ancestors were three ones the Southern economy was exploiting.
Share croppers?
quote:
monuments to a treasonous
So you want to remove Lincolns memorial from the mall?
quote:
got their asses whooped
Uhhh you really have no idea what you're talking about do you? A lot more Yankees got themselves killed than Confederates, and the South was outnumbered 3 to 1 in pretty much every battle. Hell more Yankee colored troops got themselves killed than Virginians.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 2:43 pm to Tropic Lightning
The first couple of years in the eastern theater of the war the Army of Northern Virginia took it to the Union Army of the Potomac. It took the Union Calvary two years to get up to the same level as their Confederate counterparts. The Army of Northern Virginia only lost Gettysburg because of General Stonewall Jackson's replacement General Ewell refused to take a hill that would've allowed the South to secure they high ground the following day.
Out West was a different story the Union had superior Generals and when General Grant cut the Confederacy in two it was only a matter of time by that point.
Out West was a different story the Union had superior Generals and when General Grant cut the Confederacy in two it was only a matter of time by that point.
This post was edited on 1/7/17 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 1/7/17 at 3:11 pm to WeagleinFLA
quote:
The North also had 4 slave holding states Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware, also there were free black men who owned black slaves but you won't read about that in your high school history book. I'm neutral I am not trying to defend the Confederacy, slavery or secession. The North was just as racist as the South in my opinion.
Many may have had equivalent sentiments towards black people as many Southerners, but the South was willing to die for their ability to enslave another man. There's a bit of a difference, IMO.
Posted on 1/7/17 at 3:11 pm to Tropic Lightning
There was slaves who had their own crops and own money who wasn't beat like some people would like to believe but there were whites who did beat blacks for breaking rules or laws. I don't agree with one race being above another but alot of what you're saying is true. History is always told by the winner and Civil War history is distorted I do agree with you on that.
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