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re: Ancient Qu'ran fragment may belie traditional history of Islam
Posted on 9/3/15 at 11:17 am to Wishnitwas1998
Posted on 9/3/15 at 11:17 am to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
many believers/preachers/Christian scholars/etc. claim that the Bible give basis for those who have never heard the gospel going to heaven anyways due to their ignorance.
That's what gets me. Christians say that you are guaranteed to go to Heaven if you never hear the message of Christ, and then they go far and wide to every corner of the Earth to tell people the message of Christ. By doing so, they are depriving everyone they talk to of an automatic ticket to Heaven and creating the chance they will not get there. Assuming there really is a Heaven, is there any more cruel act possible than screwing up someone's guaranteed ticket in?
And for that matter, the same goes for abortion. Christians say that the innocent (children too young to know of Christ) also automatically go to Heaven. They also believe that aborted fetuses are children, so aborting them guarantees them entry into Heaven. Keeping them alive allows them to grow up and hear the message of Christ, which creates the possibility they won't get into Heaven. If they truly cared about these children, why would they want to screw up their guaranteed entry into Heaven?
This post was edited on 9/3/15 at 11:19 am
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Posted on 9/3/15 at 12:37 pm to Nuts4LSU
Universalists aren't doing a lot of evangelizing.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 5:57 pm to the808bass
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Well... other than the Messianic ones? Glycon, Zoroaster, Attis of Perugia, and Horus.
quote:
Congrats on your comparative religion class. Now ask for a refund. No, not really, (Phrygia) no, and no.
I agree with you 808bass, but only because he should've answered Osiris, Krishna, and possibly Mithras.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 6:00 pm to CrimsonTideMD
And on a related note, the Noah/Deluge story was taken from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 6:03 pm to CrimsonTideMD
Mithras and Osiris (to a lesser extent) might still have some dating problems.
Krishna is interesting.
Krishna is interesting.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 6:04 pm to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
And on a related note, the Noah/Deluge story was taken from the Epic of Gilgamesh
They are dissimilar narratively and literarily.
They both describe a flood.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 6:16 pm to the808bass
quote:
They are dissimilar narratively and literarily.
Narratively, I'd say it's as similar as it is dissimilar.
It's like renovating an old house. You might knock down a wall or two, update the paint and appliances, and add on a deck or sunroom; but it's still the same old foundation, wiring/piping, and load bearing walls.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 10:00 pm to cardboardboxer
There was no 'holy trinity' in the early church. The trinity is a direct result of pagan/roman catholic influences.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 9/3/15 at 11:03 pm to Duke
quote:
Seems like God could have just done that.
There's no need for faith if he does that though.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 12:23 am to deltaland
too bad they didnt find an ancient picture of Muhammad with him being a goofy frick. 
Posted on 9/4/15 at 8:49 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
quote: Seems like God could have just done that.
There's no need for faith if he does that though.
Dukes point is that an omnipotent God could have designed any random system for forgiveness and salvation. He could've demanded that all believers cut off their left pinky fingers and wear red beanies on Tuesdays to show your belief, obedience, etc.
Which would still require personal faith to trust in that system.
This post was edited on 9/4/15 at 9:00 am
Posted on 9/4/15 at 9:39 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
And on a related note, the Noah/Deluge story was taken from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Several cultures had flood stories. Probably because there were actual floods.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 9:40 am to No Colors
quote:
Mohammed was a violent, slave trading, pedophile who has been responsible for more misery on this planet than any single person in history.
Moses might have something to say about that.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 9:43 am to Nuts4LSU
There was a history before history.
There was a time before the Great Forgetting.
The last 10,000 years are built on lies.
They rebooted the system, built in the lies they wanted, revised the books they wanted, and here we are.
We are the Apes in Planet of the Apes. Our true history is kept from us.
There was a time before the Great Forgetting.
The last 10,000 years are built on lies.
They rebooted the system, built in the lies they wanted, revised the books they wanted, and here we are.
We are the Apes in Planet of the Apes. Our true history is kept from us.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 9:51 am to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
We are the Apes in Planet of the Apes. Our true history is kept from us
Thank God we have self-aware people like you to break through and discover this shite.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 9:53 am to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
We are the Apes in Planet of the Apes. Our true history is kept from us.
So we went from living in cages to running this shite?
Hooray for us!
Posted on 9/4/15 at 10:02 am to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
Sleeping Tiger
You are retarded
Posted on 9/4/15 at 10:15 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
And on a related note, the Noah/Deluge story was taken from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Every early society had a flood myth built into their history because every early society developed near large bodies of water prone to flooding. And given that most people lived and died within 30 miles of where they were born for most of human history, it makes sense that large regional floods were often described in a global tone.
People always try to read into things way too much when it comes to spiritual/religious stories and ideas. The reality is that historical context answers 9/10 such questions sufficiently. Islam arose as a result of Muhammad and others using an idea to unify a group of people for the primary purpose of regional conquest. It wasn't until later that the religious idea itself became the overriding theme.
In the case of Christianity, Jesus (or possibly the historical figure he is based on) was likely one of what we know were hundreds of apocalyptic Jewish prophets in Roman-controlled first century Judea. Just like with every major social/political movement, history tends to remember, record and often distort the actions of one or several people involved while most get lost to time.
Rosa Parks is an example of how this can happen even in the age of newspapers, cameras and mass publicity. She was one of dozens of AA who did the same thing during that time and were subsequently arrested. Not only that, she wasn't even the black communities first choice to get behind and make a centerpoint of their movement. Furthermore, many of the "facts" surrounding the events that happened to her are half-truths or fabrications generated by the passage of time and political incentive.
I bet not a person here can name another black person who refused to give up their seat without looking it up though. I also bet over 50% of this board believes known untruths about the event. All of this regarding a major media event in the lifetime of tens of millions alive today, yet the Quran and the Bible are supposed to be accurate representations of events witnessed largely by uneducated, illiterate middle eastern men 1400-2000 years ago?
Posted on 9/4/15 at 10:50 am to Roger Klarvin
Man, everybody knows that Rosa Parks was just a swarthy complexioned italian dude who identified as a poor black woman. She only sat in the wrong spot because she forgot she was black for a minute and was too embarrassed to move.
Posted on 9/4/15 at 10:52 am to Nuts4LSU
Surely this science will convince these fine goat-fricking intellectuals to re-think their worldviews.
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