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re: McElwain names Appleby starter for Outback Bowl
Posted on 12/11/16 at 3:52 pm to slayerxing
Posted on 12/11/16 at 3:52 pm to slayerxing
Who said anything about moral victories? I said the young Offense is improving, once we get a true QB under Center next year it will all come together.
You really expect an offense with a Purdue and Oregon St reject QB is going to be the Fun N Gun?
You really expect an offense with a Purdue and Oregon St reject QB is going to be the Fun N Gun?
1
Posted on 12/11/16 at 4:08 pm to dbuchanon
I would think it would be at least competent otherwise why bring in those qb at all?
Posted on 12/11/16 at 4:49 pm to slayerxing
Just to add to this, people keep saying the offense is improved this year over last year:
2015: Team Passer Rating - 111.36
2016: Team Passer Rating - 98.36
2015: Red Zone offense - 66.7%
2016: Red Zone offense - 70.0%
2015: Turnovers Lost - 17 in 14 games
2016: Turnovers Lost - 20 in 12 games
2015: Passing YPG - 207.1 YPG
2016: Passing YPG - 215.3 YPG
2015: Team Rush YPG - 126.9 YPG
2016: Team Rush YPG - 129.8 YPG
2015: Team Off Scoring SEC games - 19.44 PPG
2016: Team Off Scoring SEC games - 20.11 PPG
This is not an offense improving. It is an offense that has been stuck in the mud for 2 years now, with almost no signs indicating that any improvement is imminent.
Some very small signs of improvement (and I do mean very small):
2015: Yards Per Carry - 3.48 YPC
2016: Yards Per Carry - 3.71 YPC
2015: 3rd down Conversions - 36.4%
2016: 3rd down Conversions - 41.8%
2015: Sacks Allowed - 3.29 sacks allowed
2016: Sacks Allowed - 2.08 sacks allowed
2015: Team Passer Rating - 111.36
2016: Team Passer Rating - 98.36
2015: Red Zone offense - 66.7%
2016: Red Zone offense - 70.0%
2015: Turnovers Lost - 17 in 14 games
2016: Turnovers Lost - 20 in 12 games
2015: Passing YPG - 207.1 YPG
2016: Passing YPG - 215.3 YPG
2015: Team Rush YPG - 126.9 YPG
2016: Team Rush YPG - 129.8 YPG
2015: Team Off Scoring SEC games - 19.44 PPG
2016: Team Off Scoring SEC games - 20.11 PPG
This is not an offense improving. It is an offense that has been stuck in the mud for 2 years now, with almost no signs indicating that any improvement is imminent.
Some very small signs of improvement (and I do mean very small):
2015: Yards Per Carry - 3.48 YPC
2016: Yards Per Carry - 3.71 YPC
2015: 3rd down Conversions - 36.4%
2016: 3rd down Conversions - 41.8%
2015: Sacks Allowed - 3.29 sacks allowed
2016: Sacks Allowed - 2.08 sacks allowed
This post was edited on 12/11/16 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 12/11/16 at 5:23 pm to slayerxing
Lol
You forget we had a real QB last year till he pissed hot. So those numbers are irrelevant
Youre right, we suck. Macs here for at least two more yrs so you may as well move along and cheer for a team that plays to your satisfaction. Life's too short.
You forget we had a real QB last year till he pissed hot. So those numbers are irrelevant
Youre right, we suck. Macs here for at least two more yrs so you may as well move along and cheer for a team that plays to your satisfaction. Life's too short.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 6:14 pm to dbuchanon
Cutting the sacks almost in half is pretty significant improvement and that doesn't take into account the roster overhaul that has taken place on offense to build the talent back up. To say there's no signs things are going to get better is obvious that you're not paying very close attention. The playmakers are in place now we need a quarterback to put them over the top.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 9:09 pm to atlgator
Cutting the sacks in half is an accomplishment, but let's give it some context: They gave up 46 sacks last year (3.29 per game), the most in the country. They had no where to go but up.
The roster overhaul has been significant in so far as the change of the names on the back of jerseys, but it is yet to be proven if the team is actually more talented today, than it was 3 years ago. That is open to debate, IMO.
People keep on saying UF is only a QB away, and I have said that as well, but I think that is actually wrong, the more I've thought about it. UF has almost no running game to speak of, and they haven't for many years now. The running game was marginally better than 2015, but this is the worst 2 year stretch running the ball for Florida in at least 25 years.
Now, last year, I gave the offense a pass for that, because of the OL inexperience, but with all the guys they had coming back, you would have expected at least some improvement, more than what UF was able to accomplish this year, especially given the supposed increase in talent at the RB position.
That being said, Matt Jones in 2014 had almost an equivalent year to what Scarlett did in 2016. And Matt Jones is in the NFL right now. Is Scarlett such a big upgrade over Matt Jones? Kelvin Taylor put up 1000 yards rushing basically all by himself last year, are Perine and Scarlett so much better than Kelvin Taylor? I think the increase in talent at the position is exaggerated to fit a narrative.
It's not like UF is blowing people away with talented offensive skill players right now. Solomon Patton, Quinton Dunbar, and Trey Burton had better years in 2013-2014 with 3 different QB's playing because of injury than anybody of UF's roster this year outside of maybe Callaway. And Patton had double the TDs. Was the QB situation in 2013-2014 really better than the 2016 QB situation? If so, that says a lot about this staff's ability to identify QB talent. Right?
So exactly what are the signs of improvement that we should be paying close attention to? If it is wins and losses, yes, I am for sure all about that. UF was 4-8, and 7-5 the two years before Mac got here and UF is 10-4 and now 8-4 since then, something Will Muschamp could only manage to do once in his 4 seasons (win 8 or more games), and he never won the east. So there is that.
But UF is back to a hope and a prayer for the QB position, with the old mantra, "wait till next year," and if you want to point to the offensive overhaul as a good thing (which it probably is, but there isn't any evidence yet to support it), I think it is equally fair to point at the defensive personnel overhaul with grave concern. The talent on that side of the ball seems to be fading considerably. People say that McElwain recruited well, but the fact is, the run defense was abysmal once the starters went out at LB late in the year, and the only reason UF really hung in is because the secondary was just so awesome, like historically awesome this year. The problem is, that secondary is leaving, and it will take a group of Muschamp castoffs in Washington, Harris, and Dawson to hold it together, because McElwain hasn't recruited well at that position his first 2 classes. And that doesn't even touch upon the fact that he didn't recruit a single true DT in his first two classes either.
So I love watching the gators as much as the next gator fan. People need to separate that from these boards, because these boards are designed for THIS kind of discussion. Shooting back some BS comment that I'm not a true fan because I post this is just retarded.
But the more I've revisited the games this season, and reviewed the statistics, there just isn't much to be positive about heading into next year. I sincerely hope McElwain knows what he is doing, but it's hard to look at the recruiting, and to look at the disaster on offense, and to look at the impending regression on defense without considerable dread, knowing that the offense will have all of the experience, outside of a QB, and that if they don't produce UF may struggle to go to a bowl game.
So what am I missing?
The roster overhaul has been significant in so far as the change of the names on the back of jerseys, but it is yet to be proven if the team is actually more talented today, than it was 3 years ago. That is open to debate, IMO.
People keep on saying UF is only a QB away, and I have said that as well, but I think that is actually wrong, the more I've thought about it. UF has almost no running game to speak of, and they haven't for many years now. The running game was marginally better than 2015, but this is the worst 2 year stretch running the ball for Florida in at least 25 years.
Now, last year, I gave the offense a pass for that, because of the OL inexperience, but with all the guys they had coming back, you would have expected at least some improvement, more than what UF was able to accomplish this year, especially given the supposed increase in talent at the RB position.
That being said, Matt Jones in 2014 had almost an equivalent year to what Scarlett did in 2016. And Matt Jones is in the NFL right now. Is Scarlett such a big upgrade over Matt Jones? Kelvin Taylor put up 1000 yards rushing basically all by himself last year, are Perine and Scarlett so much better than Kelvin Taylor? I think the increase in talent at the position is exaggerated to fit a narrative.
It's not like UF is blowing people away with talented offensive skill players right now. Solomon Patton, Quinton Dunbar, and Trey Burton had better years in 2013-2014 with 3 different QB's playing because of injury than anybody of UF's roster this year outside of maybe Callaway. And Patton had double the TDs. Was the QB situation in 2013-2014 really better than the 2016 QB situation? If so, that says a lot about this staff's ability to identify QB talent. Right?
So exactly what are the signs of improvement that we should be paying close attention to? If it is wins and losses, yes, I am for sure all about that. UF was 4-8, and 7-5 the two years before Mac got here and UF is 10-4 and now 8-4 since then, something Will Muschamp could only manage to do once in his 4 seasons (win 8 or more games), and he never won the east. So there is that.
But UF is back to a hope and a prayer for the QB position, with the old mantra, "wait till next year," and if you want to point to the offensive overhaul as a good thing (which it probably is, but there isn't any evidence yet to support it), I think it is equally fair to point at the defensive personnel overhaul with grave concern. The talent on that side of the ball seems to be fading considerably. People say that McElwain recruited well, but the fact is, the run defense was abysmal once the starters went out at LB late in the year, and the only reason UF really hung in is because the secondary was just so awesome, like historically awesome this year. The problem is, that secondary is leaving, and it will take a group of Muschamp castoffs in Washington, Harris, and Dawson to hold it together, because McElwain hasn't recruited well at that position his first 2 classes. And that doesn't even touch upon the fact that he didn't recruit a single true DT in his first two classes either.
So I love watching the gators as much as the next gator fan. People need to separate that from these boards, because these boards are designed for THIS kind of discussion. Shooting back some BS comment that I'm not a true fan because I post this is just retarded.
But the more I've revisited the games this season, and reviewed the statistics, there just isn't much to be positive about heading into next year. I sincerely hope McElwain knows what he is doing, but it's hard to look at the recruiting, and to look at the disaster on offense, and to look at the impending regression on defense without considerable dread, knowing that the offense will have all of the experience, outside of a QB, and that if they don't produce UF may struggle to go to a bowl game.
So what am I missing?
Posted on 12/11/16 at 9:25 pm to slayerxing
quote:
So what am I missing?
A lot
quote:
I gave the offense a pass for that, because of the OL inexperience,
Other than 1 Jr, the rest are Fr and So along the oline. Did you forget last years lineup? Hell we had a guy from friggan harvard or some shite playing due to lack of depth.
Plus, kindof hard to run the ball with a young Oline especially when noone fears your cast off QB.
quote:
, that says a lot about this staff's ability to identify QB talent. Right?
I'm sure we all saw Grier pissing hot 5 games into the season. Had that not happened we are doing alot better right now.
quote:
McElwain hasn't recruited well at that position his first 2 classes. And that doesn't even touch upon the fact that he didn't recruit a single true DT in his first two classes either.
You mean the what? 2 weeks he had once he was hired when he went out and landed guys like Cece? The man has had ONE full recruiting season to work with. Last I checked, we had like 7 Fr who did pretty well this season.
Plus we had a DT who lied his arse off and changed to the Noles at the last min, so again noone can see the future. We have some DT's lined up now, you happy?
Posted on 12/11/16 at 9:38 pm to slayerxing
Mac didnt have time to play around when he was hired, at the Press Conference he said I gotta go get on the road and do some recruiting. He went for the big needs, at that time we had a QB, so he went for other players.
After that all went down with the QB's he went out and flipped Franks from LSU and flipped a pretty good kicker from the Tide-Huge needs-. Added OL depth and landed some big time Wrs like Cleveland who he flipped from Herman at Houston.
Noone will say the recruiting doesn't have to improve, but to expect miracles in a class and a half is beyond ridiculous.
After that all went down with the QB's he went out and flipped Franks from LSU and flipped a pretty good kicker from the Tide-Huge needs-. Added OL depth and landed some big time Wrs like Cleveland who he flipped from Herman at Houston.
Noone will say the recruiting doesn't have to improve, but to expect miracles in a class and a half is beyond ridiculous.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 9:39 pm to dbuchanon
Come on, I'm not TJ or Finch here, I'm very much on the fence right now about this regime, so I think if you are going to discuss this with me, you could at least try a little harder.
You added literally nothing to the debate. Not a single thing.
You didn't address the talent issue - is UF really more talented today than they were 3 years ago on offense? Are the current RB's really that much better than Kelvin Taylor or Matt Jones?
Are the WRs really that much better than Solomon Patton, Quinton Dunbar, and Demarcus Robinson from the last regime? Does UF have anything close at TE that matches Jordan Reed or Trey Burton?
The production on the field doesn't say so. I guess we have to rely on the eye test.
And the Grier thing- I have said repeatedly that Grier doing that essentially set the program back a full year. But all 4 of the current QB's on the roster were brought in by Mac. LDR has been here two years and is terrible. Appleby was an emergency, and they couldn't make him any better than he was at Purdue either. And they couldn't get either freshman ready to play. At what point is that the fault of the staff, and not just ill fate?
Every coach has a first year throw away class, but his 2nd class was not very good either. People keep talking about all the young guys that are playing - HELLO - they have to play, everyone is hurt.
People keep on saying they played so well, but they got shredded on the ground by Arkansas, LSU, FSU, and Alabama. The only unit on the defense that stayed solid all year was the secondary, and that is because no one got hurt. When people did get hurt, in two games, against UT and FSU, UF's lack of depth showed out big time in both games. Had the staff managed to recruit even one decent corner in the 2016 class, that probably isn't as big of an issue. UF recruited a solid prospect recently at DT, so yes, that makes me happy. Of course. Especially because he is an EE and UF needs all of the help they can get at that position for next year.
You added literally nothing to the debate. Not a single thing.
You didn't address the talent issue - is UF really more talented today than they were 3 years ago on offense? Are the current RB's really that much better than Kelvin Taylor or Matt Jones?
Are the WRs really that much better than Solomon Patton, Quinton Dunbar, and Demarcus Robinson from the last regime? Does UF have anything close at TE that matches Jordan Reed or Trey Burton?
The production on the field doesn't say so. I guess we have to rely on the eye test.
And the Grier thing- I have said repeatedly that Grier doing that essentially set the program back a full year. But all 4 of the current QB's on the roster were brought in by Mac. LDR has been here two years and is terrible. Appleby was an emergency, and they couldn't make him any better than he was at Purdue either. And they couldn't get either freshman ready to play. At what point is that the fault of the staff, and not just ill fate?
Every coach has a first year throw away class, but his 2nd class was not very good either. People keep talking about all the young guys that are playing - HELLO - they have to play, everyone is hurt.
People keep on saying they played so well, but they got shredded on the ground by Arkansas, LSU, FSU, and Alabama. The only unit on the defense that stayed solid all year was the secondary, and that is because no one got hurt. When people did get hurt, in two games, against UT and FSU, UF's lack of depth showed out big time in both games. Had the staff managed to recruit even one decent corner in the 2016 class, that probably isn't as big of an issue. UF recruited a solid prospect recently at DT, so yes, that makes me happy. Of course. Especially because he is an EE and UF needs all of the help they can get at that position for next year.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 9:42 pm to dbuchanon
Recruiting hasn't been as bad as some make it out to be. The biggest issue to date, IMO, was missing at corner last year. Everything else has been OK.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 9:58 pm to slayerxing
quote:
I have said repeatedly that Grier doing that essentially set the program back a full year.
So why are you complaining then??
quote:
You added literally nothing to the debate.
Responded to all your issues, you just dont like the answers.
quote:
Are the current RB's really that much better than Kelvin Taylor or Matt Jones?
About even imo
quote:
Are the WRs really that much better than Solomon Patton, Quinton Dunbar, and Demarcus Robinson from the last regime?
Yes
quote:
Does UF have anything close at TE that matches Jordan Reed or Trey Burton?
No
quote:
The production on the field doesn't say so
Need a QB who can get them the ball.
quote:
Every coach has a first year throw away class, but his 2nd class was not very good either.
The 2nd was technically his 1st full cycle
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:09 pm to slayerxing
quote:
The biggest issue to date, IMO, was missing at corner last year.
That was addressed when we fired the DB coach and hired Grey
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:12 pm to slayerxing
There's zero point in pointing these things out. I've been doing all year. There's a massive talent gap between us and the Bamas or FSUs. There's no point in bring facts to the table Mac won the East!! Let it go bro. Welcome to the you're not a true fan club. Me and Finch have cookies and tea. Let the rest play out.
This post was edited on 12/11/16 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:16 pm to dbuchanon
He saying that Mac's first full year wasn't good.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:17 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
There's a massive talent gap between us and the Bama
Really?? I believe that's most of CFB. And you expect this to be fixed in 1 1/2 cycles?
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:27 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
He saying that Mac's first full year wasn't good.
Needed a QB, flipped one from LSU
Needed a Kicker, flipped one from Bama
Needed a big time wr opposite Callaway, flipped one from Herman at Houston
Needed OL depth, got it
Needed DT, got lied to
I wouldnt say it was terrible given the huge needs we had that got filled. Especially QB and Kicker
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:35 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
There's no point in bring facts to the table Mac won the East!!
I love how him winning the east trumps all other incompetencies he's had. The majority of which was his specialties at QB development and offensive progression.
"We might've played like shite, but at least we won the east!"
I certainly remember when winning used to be easier. Not this tooth and nail shite we've seen over the past 6-7 years.
Posted on 12/11/16 at 10:36 pm to finchmeister08
quote:
at least we won the east!"
Yes, we won the East with the team that played good enough to get the last HC fired. Let that sink in.
Posted on 12/12/16 at 12:09 am to slayerxing
quote:
You didn't address the talent issue
Lets address the W/L issue.
Champs last 2 seasons - 10-13
Macs first 2 seasons - 18-7 W/2 Sec East Titles
But but we don't blow teams out like we used to in the 90's. I'll take a win by 1 point all season long. Winning is winning. Which no matter how it looks is far better than the alternative.
Posted on 12/12/16 at 8:01 am to dbuchanon
quote:
Responded to all your issues, you just dont like the answers.
You have literally added nothing to this conversation. You give me one word answers like that is the end of the debate. Show me where UF is so much more talented on offense right now than they have been. What evidence is there to support it? Certainly not in production. Show me where UF is more talented on defense....
quote:
The 2nd was technically his 1st full cycle
Why do people keep throwing this out there like we don't fricking know? No one is complaining about his first class, the complaints are about his 2nd and 3rd classes.
quote:
Need a QB who can get them the ball.
And like I said, when does this stop being bad luck and when does it become an issue for this staff just like the last staff? This staff has brought in 4 QBs. Let's not forget, that Grier was here when they arrived. LDR was in the system for a full 2 springs, 2 summers, and a fall before actually playing a down, and he still couldn't play well. Appleby was the same here that he was at Purdue. The freshmen we have high hopes for, but no clue they can contribute. That doesn't sound like an upgraded offense to me.
quote:
So why are you complaining then??
It's a message board - this is a place for general discussion. I'm not complaining, just discussing Gator football. People keep saying the offense has been overhauled and is so much more talented, but I just don't see it, and I'm hoping someone can point it out to me. Cleveland has potential, but guess what, so did Fulwood, and we know how that turned out. His break out year never came. Callaway is maybe one small step up from Solomon Patton, and Quinton Dunbar had more production in 2013 than any other WR other than Callaway on UF's roster this year, and that is with some really horrid QB play in 2013. At some point, you can say the offense is more talented all you want, but if it doesn't produce, it's just empty words.
I'm hopeful for the offense in 2017 because of how much experience is returning. But no one is predicting even with that experience that the offense is suddenly going to blow people away. That's because, IMO, it isn't as talented as we think it is, and on top of that, this staff hasn't produced a QB to run it yet.
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