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re: Recruiting - Defense
Posted on 2/5/16 at 3:34 pm to slayerxing
Posted on 2/5/16 at 3:34 pm to slayerxing
Dont get blinded by stars...3 stars dont mean they are inferior at all...I like lunch pail & hard hat mentality. There are tons of guys who were three stars in high school that end up drafted in the first 2 rounds of the NFL. Its the willpower and determination to succeed that can be the biggest difference in players.
Urb had a lot of hot shot types who thought they were entitled to everything and we lost to an Ole Miss team at home, an average AU at home and had the locker room in a mess. Some players didnt want to practice and thank God for Tebow or we would have been average in the 2007-2009 years trust me.
Can our coaches develop players? Thats the question. Mizzou would get rejects for DL and the next thing you know they are first round picks. Our coaches need to earn their paycheck and hustle to develop and teach the younger players.
Urb had a lot of hot shot types who thought they were entitled to everything and we lost to an Ole Miss team at home, an average AU at home and had the locker room in a mess. Some players didnt want to practice and thank God for Tebow or we would have been average in the 2007-2009 years trust me.
Can our coaches develop players? Thats the question. Mizzou would get rejects for DL and the next thing you know they are first round picks. Our coaches need to earn their paycheck and hustle to develop and teach the younger players.
2
Posted on 2/5/16 at 4:20 pm to reel_gator8
Coaching Activate. Make UF's ham n eggers into Mizzous top defense. Please.
Posted on 2/5/16 at 11:29 pm to reel_gator8
Not this again. The reason why they are picked is because there are thousands each year in college. If this class was UT or FSU we'd be laughing at the # of 3*s.
LINK
LINK
quote:
Put it this way: About one in four five-star recruits like No. 1 pick Jameis Winston goes on to become a first-rounder, but only about one in 64 three-star recruits like No. 2 Marcus Mariota does. Any generalizations about star-ratings that use NFL rosters as justification are giving disproportionate weight to the outliers.
Last year, SB Nation’s Bud Elliott examined why some two-star recruits still wind up becoming NFL stars.
quote:
Three stars: 15 (47.8 percent)
Two stars or lower: two (6.2 percent)
A ha! More than half of last year’s first rounders were no better than three-star recruits. Definitive proof that those stars don’t matter, right?
Well … not if you consider the broader dispersal of those stars. Compare those percentages above to the percentage of five-stars among all 2011 recruits (the class that produced the majority of those draft picks.)
Five stars: 26 (0.7 percent)
Four stars: 336 (8.9 percent)
Three stars: 971 (25.7 percent)
Two stars or lower: 2,441 (64.7 percent)
So despite comprising less than 1 percent of all recruits, five-stars accounted for a quarter of 2015 first-rounders. Meanwhile, more than 90 percent of all recruits are designated as being three stars or less, yet their representation in the first round is nearly half that.
quote:
Highlighted by stars like Florida State’s Winston; Washington LB Shaq Thompson; USC DT Leonard Williams; and Alabama’s Amari Cooper, T.J. Yeldon and Reggie Ragland, 38 of the 50 started multiple seasons, 28 earned all-conference honors and 14 made All-American.
Conversely, only seven of the 50 could be considered a “bust,” having never started a full season.
In 2013, Hinton, then with CBS Sports, examined the rate at which each star-level of recruits develop into All-Americans.
So even if you can’t stand all the pomp and the fuss of Signing Day, you probably should pay attention Wednesday to the college decisions of five-star prospects like Rashan Gary, Derrick Brown and Demetris Robertson. Statistically speaking, they are far more likely than not to become future standouts, and the teams that land the most are far more likely to win championships than not.
This post was edited on 2/5/16 at 11:39 pm
Posted on 2/6/16 at 6:14 pm to TJGator1215
Florida Gators Recruiting: Jim McElwain Has a Blue Chip Recruiting Problem
By David Wunderlich ? Feb 4, 2016
Jim Dedmon-USA TODAY Sports
Florida has fallen behind on bringing in top end talent.
The Florida Gators are in an unusual position for a college football program in 2016. They're a team that runs a fairly conventional scheme by today's standards, and every year they play three other teams with fairly conventional schemes that happen to be elite recruiters: Florida State, Georgia, and LSU. And if UF should win its division, it's more likely than not these days to face another elite recruiter with a fairly conventional scheme in Alabama.
When teams that try to do roughly the same thing meet up in a game, the team with better players wins more often than not. Coaching ability can overcome that to a degree, but having better players will generally win out.
It is for that reason that Florida fans should be a bit worried by the 2016 class that Jim McElwain just signed. According to the 247Sports Composite, it contained only nine blue chip recruits (those getting a 4-star or 5-star rating). FSU and LSU each signed 18 of them, while Georgia netted 13. To go into further detail on the matter, let's look at the four-year trend.Will Muschamp was able to continue Urban Meyer's high rate of signing blue chip recruits for his first three classes, but after the 4-8 disaster in 2013, it really fell off in 2014. Recruits largely held off from committing to Florida during the 2015 cycle given the uncertainty about Muschamp's job, and several of those who did commit to Muschamp bailed after he was fired. A low number of blue chips in 2015 was to be expected given the lame duck aspect of Muschamp's final year and how much McElwain's new staff had to scramble to fill out the class.
What it meant, though, is that UF signed fewer blue chip recruits across 2014-15 than it did in 2013 alone. Combined with the new class, it also means that the Gators have signed 17 fewer blue chips than Georgia, 20 fewer than FSU, and 29 (!) fewer than LSU over the past four years.
By David Wunderlich ? Feb 4, 2016
Jim Dedmon-USA TODAY Sports
Florida has fallen behind on bringing in top end talent.
The Florida Gators are in an unusual position for a college football program in 2016. They're a team that runs a fairly conventional scheme by today's standards, and every year they play three other teams with fairly conventional schemes that happen to be elite recruiters: Florida State, Georgia, and LSU. And if UF should win its division, it's more likely than not these days to face another elite recruiter with a fairly conventional scheme in Alabama.
When teams that try to do roughly the same thing meet up in a game, the team with better players wins more often than not. Coaching ability can overcome that to a degree, but having better players will generally win out.
It is for that reason that Florida fans should be a bit worried by the 2016 class that Jim McElwain just signed. According to the 247Sports Composite, it contained only nine blue chip recruits (those getting a 4-star or 5-star rating). FSU and LSU each signed 18 of them, while Georgia netted 13. To go into further detail on the matter, let's look at the four-year trend.Will Muschamp was able to continue Urban Meyer's high rate of signing blue chip recruits for his first three classes, but after the 4-8 disaster in 2013, it really fell off in 2014. Recruits largely held off from committing to Florida during the 2015 cycle given the uncertainty about Muschamp's job, and several of those who did commit to Muschamp bailed after he was fired. A low number of blue chips in 2015 was to be expected given the lame duck aspect of Muschamp's final year and how much McElwain's new staff had to scramble to fill out the class.
What it meant, though, is that UF signed fewer blue chip recruits across 2014-15 than it did in 2013 alone. Combined with the new class, it also means that the Gators have signed 17 fewer blue chips than Georgia, 20 fewer than FSU, and 29 (!) fewer than LSU over the past four years.
Posted on 2/6/16 at 6:16 pm to gatorbait_007
Continued
But because teams sign different numbers of players each year, let's look at what percentage of the classes in question were composed of blue chip recruits.
It's likely that Florida's 2016 class was hurt by the fact that, after beating Georgia, the 2015 team removed its rubber mask Scooby Doo villain-style and revealed itself to be mostly another Muschamp team in November and on. There's only so much fixing that can be done in one year, after all. Once attrition began to set in, the all-around thinness showed and the team's quality sank.
Even so, the second recruiting class is supposed to be where a great recruiter begins to shine. It's not done on short notice like a transitional class. Real relationships form, and better evaluations happen. Further, it's still early enough in a coach's tenure to spin on-field struggles with a, "that's why we need you" pitch.
McElwain simply was not able to get highly rated recruits to sign with Florida like Urban Meyer, and, for a while, Muschamp were able to do. His blue chip rate is not up to par with those of Florida State, Georgia, and LSU either. It's one thing to have an iffy transitional class; every coach gets a pass for that. It's another to follow it up with a second class with fewer than 40% of the players getting a premium grade.
You should take this with a Muschamp-sized asterisk, but in the time since the Gators switched to a conventional scheme like the others have in 2011, they've gone 0-3, 2-1, 0-3, 1-2, and 1-2 against FSU, UGA, and LSU. It's going to be difficult to do much better than that when UF is at a deficit of top end talent.
I haven't even mentioned division rival Tennessee, which has been recruiting at a high level under Butch Jones. Despite only getting four blue chips in his transitional 2013 class, Jones has signed 46 blue chip recruits over the past four years. That's more than Florida's 38. And despite needing to sign every warm body he could in 2014 and 2015 to restock a depleted roster, his blue chip percentage was greater than 50% in both of those years. His four-year percentage is 42.6%, which is higher than UF's 38.8% despite UT only have a 16.0% rate in '13.
I also haven't mentioned Miami (FL), which was not recruiting at an elite level under Al Golden. The Hurricanes replaced him with Mark Richt, who signed three of those Georgia classes listed above and set the table for the fourth. Despite 2016's class being a transitional one for him at UM, Richt nabbed ten blue chips (one more than Florida did) and had a blue chip percentage of 55.6%. Florida and Miami may not play each other annually, but having a great recruiter in Coral Gables makes the job of recruiting tougher for the Gators. UF signed just four top-50 Composite recruits from the state of Florida in 2016; all ten of Miami's were in-state, while FSU got eight.
Maybe McElwain and his staff will prove to be great at player development. Maybe they've got a better eye for talent than the recruiting services do. After all,Antonio Callaway was a 3-star recruit last year, and he just had one of the best seasons a true freshman wide receiver has ever had in Gainesville, if not thebest.
We know it's possible to win the SEC East by outperforming your recruiting rankings; just ask Missouri. It hasn't proven possible lately to win the overall SEC or the national championship without being an elite recruiter, though, and contending for and winning those things are what Florida's expectations are.
So far, McElwain has been good at recruiting but not elite. It's still early in his tenure in Gainesville, but it's hard not to say that he needs to step it up.
But because teams sign different numbers of players each year, let's look at what percentage of the classes in question were composed of blue chip recruits.
It's likely that Florida's 2016 class was hurt by the fact that, after beating Georgia, the 2015 team removed its rubber mask Scooby Doo villain-style and revealed itself to be mostly another Muschamp team in November and on. There's only so much fixing that can be done in one year, after all. Once attrition began to set in, the all-around thinness showed and the team's quality sank.
Even so, the second recruiting class is supposed to be where a great recruiter begins to shine. It's not done on short notice like a transitional class. Real relationships form, and better evaluations happen. Further, it's still early enough in a coach's tenure to spin on-field struggles with a, "that's why we need you" pitch.
McElwain simply was not able to get highly rated recruits to sign with Florida like Urban Meyer, and, for a while, Muschamp were able to do. His blue chip rate is not up to par with those of Florida State, Georgia, and LSU either. It's one thing to have an iffy transitional class; every coach gets a pass for that. It's another to follow it up with a second class with fewer than 40% of the players getting a premium grade.
You should take this with a Muschamp-sized asterisk, but in the time since the Gators switched to a conventional scheme like the others have in 2011, they've gone 0-3, 2-1, 0-3, 1-2, and 1-2 against FSU, UGA, and LSU. It's going to be difficult to do much better than that when UF is at a deficit of top end talent.
I haven't even mentioned division rival Tennessee, which has been recruiting at a high level under Butch Jones. Despite only getting four blue chips in his transitional 2013 class, Jones has signed 46 blue chip recruits over the past four years. That's more than Florida's 38. And despite needing to sign every warm body he could in 2014 and 2015 to restock a depleted roster, his blue chip percentage was greater than 50% in both of those years. His four-year percentage is 42.6%, which is higher than UF's 38.8% despite UT only have a 16.0% rate in '13.
I also haven't mentioned Miami (FL), which was not recruiting at an elite level under Al Golden. The Hurricanes replaced him with Mark Richt, who signed three of those Georgia classes listed above and set the table for the fourth. Despite 2016's class being a transitional one for him at UM, Richt nabbed ten blue chips (one more than Florida did) and had a blue chip percentage of 55.6%. Florida and Miami may not play each other annually, but having a great recruiter in Coral Gables makes the job of recruiting tougher for the Gators. UF signed just four top-50 Composite recruits from the state of Florida in 2016; all ten of Miami's were in-state, while FSU got eight.
Maybe McElwain and his staff will prove to be great at player development. Maybe they've got a better eye for talent than the recruiting services do. After all,Antonio Callaway was a 3-star recruit last year, and he just had one of the best seasons a true freshman wide receiver has ever had in Gainesville, if not thebest.
We know it's possible to win the SEC East by outperforming your recruiting rankings; just ask Missouri. It hasn't proven possible lately to win the overall SEC or the national championship without being an elite recruiter, though, and contending for and winning those things are what Florida's expectations are.
So far, McElwain has been good at recruiting but not elite. It's still early in his tenure in Gainesville, but it's hard not to say that he needs to step it up.
Posted on 2/6/16 at 6:19 pm to gatorbait_007
Per sources Callahan really really let us down in recruiting this past year. Lets just say Callahan may have caused UF to miss out on Byrd, Becker, JM, NCM, and Mullen. Just to name a few of the recruits that he screwed up on. And supposedly alot of the top prospects out there that you think Florida missed out on, they actually passed on some of them for various reasons.
Posted on 2/6/16 at 6:34 pm to gatorbait_007
Mac should have never hired a HS coach with zero track record even in HS.
Posted on 2/6/16 at 7:29 pm to gatorbait_007
There has been a lot of spin on GC that UF passed a lot of people up for various reasons. Maybe its true maybe its not, who knows for sure.
Fact is they missed on a lot of their top targets. They won't keep their jobs long if that happens too much more.
We'll see how they do now that half of the team is there players.
Fact is they missed on a lot of their top targets. They won't keep their jobs long if that happens too much more.
We'll see how they do now that half of the team is there players.
Posted on 2/7/16 at 7:27 am to slayerxing
GC is an echo chamber. Anyone who doesn't agree with spin is E-mobbed and labeled a troll.
Posted on 2/7/16 at 7:49 am to slayerxing
Ehh if you actually look at needs, UF did fine. We can complain about recruiting every year, if we choose to..
Needed a QB of future.. Franks
Needed influx of talent at WR... Cleveland, Swain, and Hammond
Needed pass rushers... Clayton and Smith
Needed LBs... Joseph, Reese, and Moon
Needed a kicker... Eddie P
Not to mention they landed 2 more stud backs, 2 really good safety's, and Chauncey... this class has a good amount of balance.
Big needs for 2017 are OL, DT, and CB. The CBs need to be guys that can play day 1. DT and OL can afford to develop for a year.
Solid 2016 class overall.
Needed a QB of future.. Franks
Needed influx of talent at WR... Cleveland, Swain, and Hammond
Needed pass rushers... Clayton and Smith
Needed LBs... Joseph, Reese, and Moon
Needed a kicker... Eddie P
Not to mention they landed 2 more stud backs, 2 really good safety's, and Chauncey... this class has a good amount of balance.
Big needs for 2017 are OL, DT, and CB. The CBs need to be guys that can play day 1. DT and OL can afford to develop for a year.
Solid 2016 class overall.
Posted on 2/7/16 at 7:51 am to TJGator1215
I'm fine with yall criticicizing, but I won't allow this place to get as stupid as 247 with the complaining and bitching about everything.
Posted on 2/7/16 at 9:00 am to gatordmb89
Well Im a half glass full kinda guy and my O&B glasses keep me seeing things the way I hope for. But we have to be honest and realize the recruiting haul wasnt great this year...but not close to a disaster either.
We have plenty of time to add OL...which werent needed on immediate basis this year thank God and we have signed a few LBers but need a few more including a stud or two. WRs will be a luxury probably for 2017 and we should cherry pick, RB is going to depend on results this year, TE is definitely a need with priority on blocker-receiver and kicker might be good....defensive tackle is my worry and we need a Jon Bullard type...but he took several years to develop and we wont have that luxury...JUCO? I wouldnt be surprised to see us get LB & DT from those ranks..or a transfer? DBs overall, not just CB is a position we need bodies for...QB is good and only one needed imo based on what coaches see in practice. Thank God we have defense this year to help our offense and we arent far from being a complete team. Our offense was so bad this year post Grier that it did affect WR recruiting except for Cleveland. We still have underclassmen in the secondary and that can prevent you from recruiting elite talent sometimes....especially if you are not really balls out recruiting.
247? I can usually stomach it except for when Luke or Tom state something (or dont say anything) about coaches and then the peanut gallery start bitching about asst coaches and that alwayus sets me off and Pastor Reel Gator has to preach the good word
We have plenty of time to add OL...which werent needed on immediate basis this year thank God and we have signed a few LBers but need a few more including a stud or two. WRs will be a luxury probably for 2017 and we should cherry pick, RB is going to depend on results this year, TE is definitely a need with priority on blocker-receiver and kicker might be good....defensive tackle is my worry and we need a Jon Bullard type...but he took several years to develop and we wont have that luxury...JUCO? I wouldnt be surprised to see us get LB & DT from those ranks..or a transfer? DBs overall, not just CB is a position we need bodies for...QB is good and only one needed imo based on what coaches see in practice. Thank God we have defense this year to help our offense and we arent far from being a complete team. Our offense was so bad this year post Grier that it did affect WR recruiting except for Cleveland. We still have underclassmen in the secondary and that can prevent you from recruiting elite talent sometimes....especially if you are not really balls out recruiting.
247? I can usually stomach it except for when Luke or Tom state something (or dont say anything) about coaches and then the peanut gallery start bitching about asst coaches and that alwayus sets me off and Pastor Reel Gator has to preach the good word
Posted on 2/7/16 at 9:09 am to gatordmb89
quote:
Ehh if you actually look at needs, UF did fine. We can complain about recruiting every year, if we choose to..
Needed a QB of future.. Franks
Needed influx of talent at WR... Cleveland, Swain, and Hammond
Needed pass rushers... Clayton and Smith
Needed LBs... Joseph, Reese, and Moon
Needed a kicker... Eddie P
Not to mention they landed 2 more stud backs, 2 really good safety's, and Chauncey... this class has a good amount of balance.
Big needs for 2017 are OL, DT, and CB. The CBs need to be guys that can play day 1. DT and OL can afford to develop for a year.
Solid 2016 class overall.
100% agree with this.
However, LB and DB really worries me in 2017, especially if Wilson and Tabor jump early, which is a fairly good possibility.
Posted on 2/7/16 at 10:22 am to gatordmb89
I changed the thread title.
Posted on 2/7/16 at 10:33 am to slayerxing
Haha you didn't have to do that. I hear your argument as well. I just feel like the class was solid. It wasn't great by any stretch, but it hit on a good amount of needs. Next year, we gotta hit a few home runs, I'm hoping they can pull it off. 
Posted on 2/7/16 at 11:44 am to gatordmb89
I am not worried about who we sign...but rather who the girls school and the leghumpers sign...we dont want them signing creme de la creme too much since they are our two biggest rivals. Right now unfortunately the girls school is hitting it and we are missing it some. Even UGA with first year coach, did well and thats not usually the case with first year coaches at all....especially when they have stayed with former school since Jan 11th or so.
We started fast and then crawled to the finish line...maybe we need to start slow and finish fast?
Recruiting is the lifeblood of a program and development of those players is key to success.
We started fast and then crawled to the finish line...maybe we need to start slow and finish fast?
Recruiting is the lifeblood of a program and development of those players is key to success.
Posted on 2/8/16 at 1:24 pm to reel_gator8
Info on the reason we "missed" on some guys.
Mack Wilson wanted to commit but the staff wanted him to visit first. He didn't like that for some reason
Supposedly the Staff didn't like Victor's senior year tapes. So we moved to Cleveland.
Fuller told Tabor two nights before NSD he wanted to come to UF. Family won out.
Bruce kept telling staff he was gonna flip but never did and once we got Massey we moved on.
Mack Wilson wanted to commit but the staff wanted him to visit first. He didn't like that for some reason
Supposedly the Staff didn't like Victor's senior year tapes. So we moved to Cleveland.
Fuller told Tabor two nights before NSD he wanted to come to UF. Family won out.
Bruce kept telling staff he was gonna flip but never did and once we got Massey we moved on.
This post was edited on 2/8/16 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 2/8/16 at 3:03 pm to gatorbait_007
Hmmmmm. This sounds very familiar. Be careful......some Gator websites can be highly sensitive regarding info being taken to other sites. I don't really care either way personally. Just throwing that out there.
Posted on 2/8/16 at 7:05 pm to G8RnGA
Yeah - you might want to make some changes to that or site the source.
But they are watching - they have said it before - be careful.
But they are watching - they have said it before - be careful.
Posted on 2/8/16 at 7:06 pm to gatordmb89
I think they made a good hire that will help for next year.
And I think that some of these players are better than their ratings indicate.
But they have to do better if they want to dethrone Alabama.
And I think that some of these players are better than their ratings indicate.
But they have to do better if they want to dethrone Alabama.
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