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What's the Ceiling?
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 2/12/16 at 8:49 pm
So, Frank is putting together one of the best season's in the history of USC basketball. It's been a joy to watch, and I've actually enjoyed watching other college games (such as Cal/Oregon the other night) that I never would have done otherwise. But my question isn't about this team, this season (a Sweet 16 appearance is probably the max ceiling for this club), but for the future.
Frank's team is built largely out of sustainability. There are solid college basketball players who have been developed and stuck around for the duration of their eligibility (Daug, Chat, Carrera), and a few highly talented players from within the state (Thornwell, Dozier). Because this team isn't reliant on a dominant, once-in-a-generation talent (LSU/Simmons, OU/Hield), or a constant rotation of soon-to-be NBA stars (UK/KU), I've got to think that the seeds for success in the program that Frank is building is highly sustainable long-term. Assuming that Martin is here for the long haul (and honestly, why the hell would he leave after putting this much work into it), what is the ceiling for the program under him?
The Pros:
USC's facilities are very nice, and are in the process of filling up on a regular basis.
Martin's counterpart in Staley being as successful as she is has to ultimately help his own cause.
There is a decent amount of basketball talent in the state already.
There's room to be damn good in the conference.
The Cons:
The giants next door in UNC/Duke, and to a lesser extent, UK.
The fanbase will, much like UF, always be football-centric.
The SEC is seen as UK, maybe UF and Arkansas, and everyone else.
Sorry for the novel, but just in a pensive mood at the moment. Thoughts?
Frank's team is built largely out of sustainability. There are solid college basketball players who have been developed and stuck around for the duration of their eligibility (Daug, Chat, Carrera), and a few highly talented players from within the state (Thornwell, Dozier). Because this team isn't reliant on a dominant, once-in-a-generation talent (LSU/Simmons, OU/Hield), or a constant rotation of soon-to-be NBA stars (UK/KU), I've got to think that the seeds for success in the program that Frank is building is highly sustainable long-term. Assuming that Martin is here for the long haul (and honestly, why the hell would he leave after putting this much work into it), what is the ceiling for the program under him?
The Pros:
USC's facilities are very nice, and are in the process of filling up on a regular basis.
Martin's counterpart in Staley being as successful as she is has to ultimately help his own cause.
There is a decent amount of basketball talent in the state already.
There's room to be damn good in the conference.
The Cons:
The giants next door in UNC/Duke, and to a lesser extent, UK.
The fanbase will, much like UF, always be football-centric.
The SEC is seen as UK, maybe UF and Arkansas, and everyone else.
Sorry for the novel, but just in a pensive mood at the moment. Thoughts?
5
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:14 pm to RoyalAir
quote:
The giants next door in UNC/Duke, and to a lesser extent, UK.
True, and they will always get big time recruiting classes, but the football team has shown that a spurt of success can allow the talent to pour in. I'm hoping Dozier has the Gilmore effect.
quote:
The fanbase will, much like UF, always be football-centric
That's okay too. We obviously support basketball. The Coliseum was huge for its age and our arena now seats 18,000 (granted it was also built to be an entertainment center.
Also, you'd have to ask scrooster but I believe during our Frank days basketball was just as big as football here.
quote:
The SEC is seen as UK, maybe UF and Arkansas, and everyone else.
More Ws for us.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 9:52 pm to RoyalAir
I will say this to enable your pensive mood.
Why not us?
UK,UNC,Duke will largely be one and done schools. There is plenty of talent in the region to build and sustain a year to year competitive team ala MSU. Other teams will wax and wane as the years go by but most Gamecocks I know including myself, would support a damn curling team! As long as there is competition to be had the Gamecocks will be supported, the license plate on my vehicles and apparel I wear doesn't go into the closet after football season.
So to short answer your question, I think our "ceiling" is becoming a known name in the tournament year in and year out like it used to be back when most of us was still protein shakes in development of our dads two bedroom apartment.
Why not us?
UK,UNC,Duke will largely be one and done schools. There is plenty of talent in the region to build and sustain a year to year competitive team ala MSU. Other teams will wax and wane as the years go by but most Gamecocks I know including myself, would support a damn curling team! As long as there is competition to be had the Gamecocks will be supported, the license plate on my vehicles and apparel I wear doesn't go into the closet after football season.
So to short answer your question, I think our "ceiling" is becoming a known name in the tournament year in and year out like it used to be back when most of us was still protein shakes in development of our dads two bedroom apartment.
Posted on 2/12/16 at 11:57 pm to RoyalAir
IMHO there is no ceiling if he continues to win and recruit well ... anything is possible.
Our fan support for basketball is, and always has been, directly proportional to how successful the program is at the time.
If Martin can consistently get us to the Sweet 16 for instance ... the sky is the limit.
We need to start keeping players like Seventh Woods home. That's the key. Getting Dozier was big, but you have to keep them all at home to really make a move towards consistency. Either that or you have to find a way to find them elsewhere, which Martin and his staff seem good at doing.
Who is expected in our next class, and how highly rated is this next class going to be? That's the key - building off of what we are doing right now.
Our fan support for basketball is, and always has been, directly proportional to how successful the program is at the time.
If Martin can consistently get us to the Sweet 16 for instance ... the sky is the limit.
We need to start keeping players like Seventh Woods home. That's the key. Getting Dozier was big, but you have to keep them all at home to really make a move towards consistency. Either that or you have to find a way to find them elsewhere, which Martin and his staff seem good at doing.
Who is expected in our next class, and how highly rated is this next class going to be? That's the key - building off of what we are doing right now.
Posted on 2/13/16 at 8:34 am to RoyalAir
We are already above what i hoped for in win total for the entire season. I don't know what the ceiling is, b/c we still have so many games left. I think it's obvious that we're a NCAAt team now. The true ceiling can't be determined until we see the seeding for that.
It is POSSIBLE that we win the SEC, and maybe even the SECt. I just don't know what the ceiling is though. I'm happy we got this far, everything on top of this is just icing.
It is POSSIBLE that we win the SEC, and maybe even the SECt. I just don't know what the ceiling is though. I'm happy we got this far, everything on top of this is just icing.
Posted on 2/13/16 at 8:53 am to RoyalAir
quote:
The giants next door in UNC/Duke, and to a lesser extent, UK.
Do you even basketball bro?
Giant = UK
Near Giant = UNCheats
Napoleonic Giant = Dook
Posted on 2/13/16 at 8:56 am to scrooster
quote:
We need to start keeping players like Seventh Woods home.
Think this is really key, we have to keep players like PJ Dozier, Seventh Woods, Devontae Shuler and so on at home.
Posted on 2/13/16 at 9:22 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Do you even basketball bro?
Based on proximity, not by status. UNC and Duke are literally next door. UK is down the block, and therefore not quite as likely to be in our backyard. It wasn't a slight, at all, on UK's tradition. Just their physical distance to USC.
Relax. No one is speaking ill of the Wildcats.
Posted on 2/13/16 at 3:13 pm to RoyalAir
quote:
Relax.
Sorry man, when I hear the Big 7 I get all wired.
UNCheats
Dook
Taters
Free Shoes
Bucknuts
Line Beards
California Condoms
Posted on 2/16/16 at 7:01 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Giant = UK
Near Giant = UNCheats
Napoleonic Giant = Dook
What?
Duke is coming off a national title.
All 3 are giants of the Sport.
This post was edited on 2/16/16 at 7:03 am
Posted on 2/16/16 at 8:49 am to I Bleed Garnet
2 of the schools are #1 and #2 in all time wins
2 of these schools have home venues seating 22,000 or more
2 of these schools have won multiple National Championships under different coaches
2 of these schools easily sell out away venues with lots of rabid fans
2 of these schools have been caught in cheating scandals
Then you have Dook, probably the worst cheater of all yet the NCAA never goes after them even with grand jury testimony. They have a single coach who whines unless he gets his way all the time. They have trouble filling a 9,000 seat home venue and can fill the stands for road games with their own fans.
Look, Wooden cheated his arse off and won 10 NCAA titles. Then the NCAA busted Papa Sam and Wooden took early retirement. Before Wooden, UCLA never won a Natty, and since they have only won 1. Pretty sure when Rat Face leaves Dook, they will fall back to basketball obscurity. Louisville was probably added to take their place as the Tar Heels big rival in the future.
Hence, my comment of Dook being a Napoleonic Giant in the sense that most is self inflated. When K goes, Kentucky and North Carolina will go all Wellington on their arse.
2 of these schools have home venues seating 22,000 or more
2 of these schools have won multiple National Championships under different coaches
2 of these schools easily sell out away venues with lots of rabid fans
2 of these schools have been caught in cheating scandals
Then you have Dook, probably the worst cheater of all yet the NCAA never goes after them even with grand jury testimony. They have a single coach who whines unless he gets his way all the time. They have trouble filling a 9,000 seat home venue and can fill the stands for road games with their own fans.
Look, Wooden cheated his arse off and won 10 NCAA titles. Then the NCAA busted Papa Sam and Wooden took early retirement. Before Wooden, UCLA never won a Natty, and since they have only won 1. Pretty sure when Rat Face leaves Dook, they will fall back to basketball obscurity. Louisville was probably added to take their place as the Tar Heels big rival in the future.
Hence, my comment of Dook being a Napoleonic Giant in the sense that most is self inflated. When K goes, Kentucky and North Carolina will go all Wellington on their arse.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:15 am to Cheese Grits
I wish I was smart enough to get into Duke.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:25 am to I Bleed Garnet
My cousin got in and was pretty smart but they have their share of chuckleheads too. I can think of at least a few I know personally that were not gifted with brains as much as daddy's income.
UVA is still probably the best degree in the ACC.
UVA is still probably the best degree in the ACC.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:48 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
daddy's income.
Good thing I've had that helping me.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 2:42 pm to I Bleed Garnet
quote:
I wish I was smart enough to get into Duke.
Good to be that smart but you wouldn't want to go there. Full of pompous assholes.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 2:47 pm to atlgamecockman
quote:
Full of pompous yankee assholes.
FIFY
Posted on 2/18/16 at 6:50 am to atlgamecockman
quote:
Full of pompous assholes.
And there's something wrong with that?
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