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re: What happened in Houston between the Oilers leaving and the Texans debuting?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 10:48 pm to cokebottleag
Posted on 8/10/14 at 10:48 pm to cokebottleag
Week 17 - 1984: San Antonio Gunslingers vs Houston Gamblers
SAN ANTONIO GUNSLINGERS USFL SONG
quote:
Published on Jun 12, 2014
1984 Week 17 - Monday, June 18, 1984
Attendance: 30,184
TV: ESPN
Former world heavyweight champion George Foreman, now a minister prayed before the game and Houston Gamblers quarterback Jim Kelly prayed in the fourth quarter in the Astrodome Monday.
Foreman, a former fighter turned minister, performed a wedding at halftime on the 50-yard line, and Kelly rallied the Gamblers with a pair of spectacular second-half comebacks for a 29-26 United States Football victory over the San Antonio Gunslingers.
The Gamblers, already assured of a playoff berth as the Central Division champions, nonetheless had to rally twice in the fourth quarter to defeat their intrastate rival.
San Antonio quarterback Rick Neuheisel paced the Gunslingers to a 20-7 halftime lead with a 17-point first quarter that included a 15-yard pass to Don Roberts, Mike Hagen's two-yard run and the first of four field goals by Nick Mike-Mayer.
Houston's only first-half scoring came on Kellyls 44-yard touchdown pass to Richard Johnson, who set a USFL season receiving total of 1,322 yards.
Houston took a 21-20 third quarter lead on Kelly's 26-yard touchdown pass to Scott McGhee and Todd Fowler's one-yard dive.
But Mike-Mayer's 40 and 49 yard field goals gave San Antonio the lead until Kelly took the Gamblers 79-yards in two plays, capped by Ricky Sanders' 30-yard touchdown catch with 1:15 left in the game for the win.
San Antonio Gunslingers:
Years of existence: 1984-1985
Owner: Clinton Manges
Stadium: Alamo Stadium (32,000)
Colors: Kelly green, royal blue, silver and white
Overall Regular Season Record: 12-24 (.333)
Overall Playoff Record: 0-0
Yearly Standings and Average Home Attendances
1984: 7-11 (15,444)
1985: 5-13 (11,721)
Always a butt of league jokes, the Gunslingers were one of the USFL's prime examples of how not to run a franchise. The team appeared to be under financed from the start. Team owner Clinton Manges had a fortune in oil but had a hard time converting it to cash to pay his players and staff. The crash of the oil market didn't help. The league even had to tell the 'Slingers to move their offices out of a double-wide trailer in the Alamo Stadium parking lot. Missed paydays became routine during the 1985 season, causing the resignation of coach Jim Bates and a near player revolt.
The Gunslingers held a reunion in 1998, thirteen years after the team had played its last game. More than 50 former members of the squad attended.
Their Finest Hour: No, it wasn't the time the lights went out at Alamo Stadium during a nationally-televised ESPN game against the Houston Gamblers. It wasn't even the time an unidentified San Antonio player was put on the injured list due to a groin injury caused by the lid on a trunk he was packing. Instead, we'll go with the Gunslingers' first win, a 14-10 decision against the Oakland Invaders. Oakland drew first blood in the opening quarter on a 19-yard Fred Besana to Gordon Banks scoring pass. San Antonio tied it before halftime when Rick Neuheisel found Joey Hackett in the end zone from nine yards out. Kevin Shea's 36-yard field goal put Oakland up, 10-7, in the third, and it stayed that way until deep into the fourth. Neuheisel directed a drive which culminated in Al Penn-White's one-yard run with 1:22 remaining. The San Antonio defense held, and the Gunslingers became the last of the 1984 expansion teams to record a win.
SAN ANTONIO GUNSLINGERS USFL SONG
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 10:53 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 10:56 pm to TeLeFaWx
There is a huge difference between replacing an old stadium and replacing an old stadium that just had major renovations done to it. We werent putting up with it and its sad that we gave in to the Texans franchise. Tax dollars have no business in building stadiums for private businesses. The current state of the Astrodome is a great example as to why it should be a crime for city leaders to pay, own, and operate such places.
And also, the city of Dallas is more than willing to part with the cowboys given how much they contributed to the construction of Texas stadium or Cowboys stadium ($0 dollars). It is Jerry Jones the one who is unwilling to leave given that he paid for over 2/3rds of the stadium costs (which is unusual for NFL owners to do). Leaving Dallas would ruin the fan following the franchise has built in Oklahoma and Texas (minus Houston of course). You'd have to be crazy to move from there.
And also, the city of Dallas is more than willing to part with the cowboys given how much they contributed to the construction of Texas stadium or Cowboys stadium ($0 dollars). It is Jerry Jones the one who is unwilling to leave given that he paid for over 2/3rds of the stadium costs (which is unusual for NFL owners to do). Leaving Dallas would ruin the fan following the franchise has built in Oklahoma and Texas (minus Houston of course). You'd have to be crazy to move from there.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:09 pm to EKG
quote:
I realize your comment is tongue-in-cheek (sorta). But a more accurate characterization of the scenario would've been, "Houston wouldn't be held hostage by Bud Adams." Think UTex in the Big 12. That's the kind of egomania with which we were dealing. It was a toxic relationship.
I know it was super poor timing, and Bud Adams was unreasonable, but if the city wanted to make it happen they could have. The reluctance was justified, but it was reluctance none the less.
And I know that someone talked about public investment in private enterprise, but I am of the opinion that it isn't as black and white as that. Sports teams are important to cities. It's just like local businesses in BCS ponying up to not lose home games for a year.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:32 pm to TeLeFaWx
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Sports teams are important to cities. It's just like local businesses in BCS ponying up to not lose home games for a year.
I understand that NFL teams are supposed to influence the local economy and create jobs (whether those are part time and seasonal is up for debate), but if every city, county, and state stopped paying for stadiums, will the NFL cease to exist? No (see the Patriots and Jets/Giants). So theoretically NFL teams could still build their stadium and create the same impact in the community without using taxes that could be used for something else. Cities are afraid to lose pro franchises but many people fail to realize that many of them need the large markets to survive. A mass exodus of teams probably wont happen in large markets if most major cities said no to public funding.
The NFL is already receiving many tax breaks through their non profit status, so at some point people need to realize that a line needs to be drawn when deaaling with franchises looking for new stadiums.
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 8/11/14 at 12:39 am to greenbastard
All of the franchises pay income tax. The league office doesn't but I don't see why that matters, the NFL office is simply the sum of what the owners put into it and is governed by the owners. I don't understand your hatred of "the NFL" in this case. It's not like the other owners or Tagliabue were telling Bud Adams to hold the city hostage for a new stadium.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:03 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
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Being an A&M/Houston sports fan is a cold, unforgiving fan existence
truer words have never been spoken
Posted on 8/11/14 at 10:27 am to Dr RC
I remember going to a couple Gunslinger games. Even went to an open practice they had before they started playing. It was exciting at the time that SA was getting a pro football team. Of course, they were an absolute dumpster fire but I was a young teen and too wide eyed to care.
FWIW, I don't think SA is a great NFL town. It's better than it used to be but it just doesn't have enough corporate money to make it work. I like the town as a Spurs haven. Ironically Austin is a much better NFL type town but there is no freaking way the sips would allow and NFL team there and the hippie socialists who run the city certainly wouldn't help. It would theoretically work to have a "combined" team between the cities but I don't know if there are 2 more culturally different cities in Texas than Austin and SA (speaking as someone who grew up in SA and lives in Austin).
FWIW, I don't think SA is a great NFL town. It's better than it used to be but it just doesn't have enough corporate money to make it work. I like the town as a Spurs haven. Ironically Austin is a much better NFL type town but there is no freaking way the sips would allow and NFL team there and the hippie socialists who run the city certainly wouldn't help. It would theoretically work to have a "combined" team between the cities but I don't know if there are 2 more culturally different cities in Texas than Austin and SA (speaking as someone who grew up in SA and lives in Austin).
Posted on 8/11/14 at 10:43 am to aggressor
I just don't see SA getting another pro team any time soon. If they built a ballpark downtown right by the Riverwalk it would be pretty sweet, but they would just be another small market club. The Houston and Dallas franchises in MLB and NFL will fight tooth and nail for that territory because it would take a lot of the Austin fans as well
Posted on 8/11/14 at 11:05 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
aggressor
Two of tArk's stalwarts
DOWNVOTES for both of y'all
Posted on 8/11/14 at 11:12 am to TbirdSpur2010
I would like to see them get another team personally. As I said, if they built a nice retractable roof stadium downtown within walking distance of the Riverwalk and got the A's, I would be ecstatic as an MLB fan. Same goes if they got an NFL squad.
If I owned one of the four Houston/Dallas teams in question though I would probably stop at nothing to try to block it
If I owned one of the four Houston/Dallas teams in question though I would probably stop at nothing to try to block it
This post was edited on 8/11/14 at 11:13 am
Posted on 8/11/14 at 11:22 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
Part of the problem is they built the Alamodome on the cheap. Now what do you do with it? It's an ok stadium but it certainly isn't going to attract a team so it will be mothballed without ever really having a team there (unless you count the Spurs' few awkward years there). The location is ideal though.
SA is a great tourist/destination city that could make a strong argument behind Vegas and New Orleans as #3. I think an NFL team would have a much better shot than MLB though. Just not enough baseball history in SA and with no salary cap in MLB it would be destined for mediocrity and simply never do well. The NFL is more forgiving of a small/mid market because of their cap and revenue sharing. As an Aggie I would LOVE it if an SA NFL team could siphon off some of the sips corporate money from Austin though.
Oh and ThirdSpur:
SA is a great tourist/destination city that could make a strong argument behind Vegas and New Orleans as #3. I think an NFL team would have a much better shot than MLB though. Just not enough baseball history in SA and with no salary cap in MLB it would be destined for mediocrity and simply never do well. The NFL is more forgiving of a small/mid market because of their cap and revenue sharing. As an Aggie I would LOVE it if an SA NFL team could siphon off some of the sips corporate money from Austin though.
Oh and ThirdSpur:
Posted on 8/11/14 at 12:07 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
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they built a nice retractable roof stadium downtown within walking distance of the Riverwalk
Yeah, I hear ya. That'd be a dicey proposition the way the town is configured, though.
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If I owned one of the four Houston/Dallas teams in question though I would probably stop at nothing to try to block it
Yup. It's a pretty poorly kept secret that Jerruh wants no part of bringing a team to SA, as it's a Cowboys stronghold (hell, I'm proof positive of that fact).
Posted on 8/11/14 at 12:10 pm to aggressor
quote:
ThirdSpur
quote:
they built the Alamodome on the cheap. Now what do you do with it? It's an ok stadium but it certainly isn't going to attract a team so it will be mothballed without ever really having a team there
Yup.
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I think an NFL team would have a much better shot than MLB though. Just not enough baseball history in SA and with no salary cap in MLB it would be destined for mediocrity and simply never do well.
Agree. Missions notwithstanding, the appetite for baseball in SA doesn't begin to compare to football.
quote:
As an Aggie I would LOVE it if an SA NFL team could siphon off some of the sips corporate money from Austin though.
I can get behind this line of thinking
Posted on 8/12/14 at 7:48 am to theGarnetWay
Man! You had to bring this up!?!
Talk about tearing off a scab.
I love the Oilers. Still the best colors and logo in football. PERFECT for Houston. The Texans name and logo are both lame, generic, and so Walmart. Sad.
It's not that Houston lacked the will or money to build a new stadium, it's that they wouldn't do it for BUD. Bud had JUST demanded and received renovations to the Astrodome. His personality was assholish and pushy. He's a jerkoff. So it really came down to telling him frick you. Had to be done, but it was like chopping off our own arm.
So far as San Antonio... SA is where major corporations put their call centers. Not where they headquarter. So there's a lack of corporate money, which is the lifeblood of an NFL franchise. Austin has a ton of tech companies with venture capital money to burn on seats and boxes, but it's a Horn-dominated town and lacks the political desire or will for an NFL franchise. The best thing may be a stadium along 35 near New Braunfels or San Marcos. Get folks and corporate money from BOTH towns. Plus, SA south of I-10 is a third-world wasteland anyway, so in that location you are closest to that north side of town you want to attract.
Of course, Jurrah would *absolutely* conspire to kill that.
Talk about tearing off a scab.
I love the Oilers. Still the best colors and logo in football. PERFECT for Houston. The Texans name and logo are both lame, generic, and so Walmart. Sad.
It's not that Houston lacked the will or money to build a new stadium, it's that they wouldn't do it for BUD. Bud had JUST demanded and received renovations to the Astrodome. His personality was assholish and pushy. He's a jerkoff. So it really came down to telling him frick you. Had to be done, but it was like chopping off our own arm.
So far as San Antonio... SA is where major corporations put their call centers. Not where they headquarter. So there's a lack of corporate money, which is the lifeblood of an NFL franchise. Austin has a ton of tech companies with venture capital money to burn on seats and boxes, but it's a Horn-dominated town and lacks the political desire or will for an NFL franchise. The best thing may be a stadium along 35 near New Braunfels or San Marcos. Get folks and corporate money from BOTH towns. Plus, SA south of I-10 is a third-world wasteland anyway, so in that location you are closest to that north side of town you want to attract.
Of course, Jurrah would *absolutely* conspire to kill that.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 8:24 am to Cooter Davenport
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SA south of I-10 is a third-world wasteland
No.
quote:
SA is where major corporations put their call centers. Not where they headquarter. So there's a lack of corporate money, which is the lifeblood of an NFL franchise. Austin has a ton of tech companies with venture capital money to burn on seats and boxes, but it's a Horn-dominated town and lacks the political desire or will for an NFL franchise.
I would go along with you on this if we were talking about both cities in a vacuum. But a team in SA would garner both sides of the equation you presented: the corporate money of Austin and the football passion of San Antonio.
quote:
Jurrah would *absolutely* conspire to kill that.
He is a frickwad, I agree.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 11:09 am to TbirdSpur2010
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I would go along with you on this if we were talking about both cities in a vacuum. But a team in SA would garner both sides of the equation you presented: the corporate money of Austin and the football passion of San Antonio.
I see where you are coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree with the "reality on the ground", so to speak.
Having lived in both places, I can tell you that while they are relatively close geographically and growing together in terms of their exurbs (35 between them is an uninterrupted city for the most part), Austin and San Antonio are worlds apart culturally. They are two opposite poles. The people I worked with in SA HATED Austin. It's the same feeling Houstonians have for Dallas. Austinites look down on SA as a sprawling tourist trap full of military bases, call centers, fat people and barrio-dwellers. People in Austin aren't really Spurs fans, even though they're great and relatively close. While San Antonio is going apeshit over Los Spurs, in Austin you wouldn't even know the playoffs were happening.
If an NFL team was IN SA and called the San Antonio Whatevers it would lack Austin support. I'm just telling you, it would. Austin people don't identify with San Antonio and at an hour away, it's too far. An hour is a cognitive divide.
Look at Gillette, where the Pats play. It splits the difference between Boston and Providence and is only half an hour from central Boston. People will do half an hour. Companies will do half an hour. Companies won't buy boxes a full hour down the worst highway in Texas.
Look at MetLife. Yes the teams that play there are called New York and it is in NJ, but it's only 20 minutes from Manhattan.
The only way to get both fan support and corporate dollars for a central Texas team is to split the difference between SA and ATX and call the team the Texas Such-and-such so that Austinites can drive there easily and don't have to feel dirty for supporting a team called San Antonio. That's blunt and offensive and will ruffle some feathers, but it's real.
This post was edited on 8/12/14 at 11:12 am
Posted on 8/12/14 at 11:22 am to Cooter Davenport
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The people I worked with in SA HATED Austin
We've obviously had different experiences, then.
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While San Antonio is going apeshit over Los Spurs, in Austin you wouldn't even know the playoffs were happening.
Have to disagree here. Some of the most avid Spurs fans I know are Austinites, and given the Spurs' D-league affiliate I'm Austin (the Toros), I know many who've traveled back and forth between the cities to catch games. I've been in Austin many times during the NBA playoffs...you'd have to be pretty damn blind to not know if the Spurs were doing well, I'm sorry.
quote:
If an NFL team was IN SA and called the San Antonio Whatevers it would lack Austin support. I'm just telling you, it would. Austin people don't identify with San Antonio and at an hour away, it's too far. An hour is a cognitive divide.
I respectfully and forcefully disagree. For starters, in my experience, the so-called cognitive divide to which you refer is greatly exaggerated. SA and Austin do have distinctly different vibes, but not of the hostile sort, and tend to share more culturally the closer the exurbs grow together. I, too, remember when a trip from SA to Austin wasn't an unbroken stream of civilization, and as that's grown, so has the inexorable connection between the two towns.
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Austinites can drive there easily and don't have to feel dirty for supporting a team called San Antonio. That's blunt and offensive and will ruffle some feathers, but it's real.
Again, I have to disagree. Put a team in SA, and more Austinites will find a reason to support it based on proximity alone than will spurn it just to spite the River City.
I cannot disagree with you more.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 11:35 am to Cooter Davenport
Doesnt San Antonio have At&t, Valero, USAA, Toyota, Clear Channel, and HEB for major corporate money? (Yeah, HEB. They provided my goods when I was south of God's country).
I think corporate sponsorship isnt a problem for SA. The problem is getting loyal cowboys fans to make the switch. Part of what makes the Spurs so profitable is the fact that they own Austin, Corpus Christi, the Valley, El Paso, and every point in between. Those markets are currently owned by Jerry Jones for NFL. Any team making the move would have to have a very good market entry strategy. The area just described is heavily populated by hispanics who tend to have a strong brand loyalty (hispanics dont just switch their manteca supplier for their tamales every Christmas, duh). Not good if they're Cowboys fans.
I think corporate sponsorship isnt a problem for SA. The problem is getting loyal cowboys fans to make the switch. Part of what makes the Spurs so profitable is the fact that they own Austin, Corpus Christi, the Valley, El Paso, and every point in between. Those markets are currently owned by Jerry Jones for NFL. Any team making the move would have to have a very good market entry strategy. The area just described is heavily populated by hispanics who tend to have a strong brand loyalty (hispanics dont just switch their manteca supplier for their tamales every Christmas, duh). Not good if they're Cowboys fans.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 11:41 am to greenbastard
Yeah they have Valero, Tesoro, Rackspace, USAA, plus large offices for AT&T, Toyota and every oil and gas producer and service company that is operating in the Eagle Ford has an office San Antonio with plenty of wealthy people.
They don't seem to have a problem getting corporate sponsorships or suites for the Spurs. For the NFL they would draw in corporate sponsors and suites for companies in Austin as well, as Tbird said. I don't think it would be a problem.
They don't seem to have a problem getting corporate sponsorships or suites for the Spurs. For the NFL they would draw in corporate sponsors and suites for companies in Austin as well, as Tbird said. I don't think it would be a problem.
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