quote:
The Pope can say whatever he wants but what do his actions show?

When a priest chooses to blatantly defy what the Pope says and in fact is blessing the union: Rev. Jan Korditschke decided to hold blessings for LGBTQ+ couples in Berlin “because the love of homosexuals is something good.

“I stand behind what I am doing, though it is painful for me that I cannot do it in tune with the church leadership,” Korditschke, who works for the city’s Jesuit diocese. LINK

Surely this priest would be pastorally corrected, as even he acknowledges his actions are not in tune with church leadership, despite the vow of obedience he took? Well no, apparently not because this priest has been saying these things for at least 3 years now and he’s still a chaplain and teacher at a Catholic spiritual retreat center.

There’s also this woman, Theresia Härtel, a sexologist and pastoral worker in the Berlin area. Härtel serves as the contact for queer-sensitive pastoral care within Bernhard Lichtenberg, the parish that Herz Jesu is within.
Härtel wears her passion for sex education on her ears, in the form of clay earrings in the shape of an anatomically correct vulva, swinging as she bustles through the church’s courtyard, greeting nearly every person that passes by.

In addition to her queer-sensitive pastoral work, Härtel leads a youth group at the Herz Jesu church. LINK

The Pope does not have to allow this, the church has a hierarchy and its clergy take vows of obedience. These people are flagrantly disobeying Church doctrine while proudly giving interviews and posing for pictures at their Church-owned offices. Are the clergy defrocked? Lay people fired? Are we to assume Pope Francis does not know about the statements and actions of these people, despite clear evidence that he is aware?

Alright, so I'm going to assume you really don't know what I'm going to tell you.

The document Francis put out about blessings was, in part, a response to these German Bishops and their priests advocating for a lot of this LGBTQ stuff that goes against Church teaching. It lines out all the limits of a blessing, which end up not being what the German Bishops want. They wanted liturgical blessings/a formal right, Francis told them to go pound sand.

After it was written, the Vatican came out and explained it was a strong response to the German bishops who are openly advocating for gay marriage because it denies their petitions. The Vatican also has these German bishops scheduled to continue to come to the Vatican (like three times this year). They've already told them to stop, and they keep telling them to stop. The Pope is not just ignoring them, but he is trying to get them back into the fold/correct them without letting them fall away. Unfortunately, the issue in Germany isn't contained to just a few extreme parishes. It's a lot of them.

This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 7:54 pm

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Posted by Lightning

Texas

Member since May 2014

2300 posts

Posted on 2/11/24 at 8:50 pm to CatholicLSUDude

I actually am aware of the history with the German bishops but I appreciate you explaining it politely.

As you stated, this has been going on for several years now and the tension between the German bishops and the Vatican continues. The Pope isn’t ignoring it, but I would argue that 3 years is long enough for pastoral counseling to get them back in line. This isn’t a handful of rogue priests, this is a large organization of priests, bishops (including the president of the German bishops’ conference) and cardinals. Pope Francis could put a stop to it tomorrow, or in 2021, IF he wanted to.

Bishop Franz-Josef Overbeck, for example, said in 2021 “that priests in his diocese would not have to expect any consequences if they oppose the prohibition of the blessing of homosexual connections. He will not "suspend a priest of his diocese or put other church sentences on him" if he blesses a homosexual relationship.” LINK

Yet in 2023, Overbeck was STILL a bishop and STILL defying Vatican orders.

quote:
Overbeck also acknowledged that a “synodal committee” will begin work in Germany in November with the aim of establishing a permanent synodal council made up of bishops and laity to govern the Catholic Church in Germany. The Vatican has explicitly forbidden the establishment of this council as inconsistent with the Church’s ecclesiology, and four out of Germany’s 27 ordinaries voted in June to block funding for the synodal committee from a common fund.

LINK

I understand the idea of correcting them while keeping them in the fold, but it’s not working - they continue to blatantly ignore those corrections. Francis doesn’t have to excommunicate him but WHY is this guy still a bishop when he’s thumbing his nose at church hierarchy and clearly breaking his vow of obedience? He could be removed from public ministry, forbidden from speaking to the media, or any other of a variety of Church discipline options.

The fact that Francis hasn’t stopped it, means he doesn’t really want to.

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Posted by Lightning

Texas

Member since May 2014

2300 posts

Posted on 2/11/24 at 9:14 pm to CatholicLSUDude

quote:
Unfortunately, the issue in Germany isn't contained to just a few extreme parishes. It's a lot of them.

And every one of those extreme parishes could have their priest reassigned, replaced with a doctrinally conservative priest, maybe from Africa or even the recently ordained American priests.

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